Industry advice and preparing for 2021 with Nick Schiffer

Paul Wurth:

Hey, everybody. Welcome to “The Building Code.” I’m your host, Paul Wurth. Thank you so much for joining again. This week’s episode is really awesome. I have a friend of mine and a celebrity in the industry, he’s going to hate that I said that.

But Nick Schiffer from NS Builders in Boston, he’s a longtime Buildertrend user and more importantly he’s got some great podcasts and just has a ton of great knowledge about being an owner. So, I’m very happy to bring on Nick. Alright, Nick. Thanks for joining us. You’re out of Boston right now?

Nick Schiffer:

Yes, I am.

Paul Wurth:

That’s your office?

Nick Schiffer:

It is. Podcast booth, office, whatever you want to call it.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah, got it. We’ll talk about your podcast for sure because people need to listen to that if they’re not.

Nick Schiffer:

Sure.

Paul Wurth:

I’m sure. Actually, I would bet that a good majority of people if they’re listening to our podcast they’re listening to “The Modern Craftsman.”

Nick Schiffer:

I hope so. And vice versa.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah. If not, we’ll definitely get them to do that. I think it’s so funny, in the background you have a bunch of blueprints. I just feel like that’s like a stock thing at every construction shop.

Nick Schiffer:

It is. And it’s funny because John gave me sh*t because it holds six blueprints. I only had three sitting on my desk, and I was like, I have a little … It’s a wine bottle holder, actually.

Paul Wurth:

Okay.

Nick Schiffer:

And I threw it up there, and I threw the plans on it and it’s like, those plans now, I don’t even use it.

Paul Wurth:

Exactly.

Nick Schiffer:

I thought it would be helpful. Those are going to sit there for five years.

Paul Wurth:

Perfect. Well, they’re going to look in all the Zoom meetings.

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah, right.

Paul Wurth:

So, that’s a good question. So, obviously, we’re into eight months of the pandemic, and we can definitely talk about how you were feeling, sort of how you navigated that, which was a pretty scary time for everybody. But have you been doing a lot of Zoom calls? Does that exist with potential clients and clients?

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah. We had one client, and we were just chatting off air about it, but we had one client where we never met in person.

Paul Wurth:

Seriously?

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah. We met over Zoom, interviewed over Zoom, reviewed plans over Zoom, signed a contract over Zoom, went to start construction over Zoom, well, went to start construction within Zoom like, hey kickoff. Unfortunately, that project walked away. And I do attribute part of it to Zoom, and no offense to Zoom.

I think the thing that we had to navigate was the people reading and realizing who was the right fit for us because we had a second project, very similar, we went really far down the road. Because when all this, when the pandemic started, I’m like, alright, sales mode. We have to make sure we’re mentally and financially prepared.

So, I was going after every project, everything, every single … I was drawing a funnel for every client, where are they? I need to call them today. I need to email them tomorrow. And we got far down these roads with these clients. And I remember one of them I met in person, and we walked the job, and I was like, wow, I missed every red flag.

Paul Wurth:

Oh, really?

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah. And it’s like, this just isn’t our job, and I walked away from it. Had a few others that we had met and met with … but yeah, to answer your question, Zoom has been huge. We’re meeting with clients on a weekly basis over Zoom. Where we’re not doing our weekly meetings on site, the site stays active with our guys. But the client, we’ll do a check-in with them reviewing drawings with architects over Zoom.

Even networking, it’s like with people that we want to meet or architects, it starts with Zoom. And it’s kind of like the beginning of dating. And then when we’re comfortable enough to meet in-person it’s like, alright. I’ll grab my mask, you grab yours, we’ll go to a coffee shop and grab a coffee and sit outside.

Paul Wurth:

Well, that’s so interesting. So, you know how like when you text somebody or email somebody that context, you can’t really tell … I always have a joke with my wife like, when you text somebody sure, that’s the worst.

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah.

Paul Wurth:

When you ask somebody like, hey, can you bring a blah, blah, blah. They go, Sure. You’re like, oh, do they hate me? Or is that like a – sure.

Nick Schiffer:

You’ve met my wife.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah, I have.

Nick Schiffer:

She’s cool as hell. But I get home, I’m like, what are you so mad at? She’s like, what are you talking about? I’m like, look at the text you sent me. She said, Nick, I’m dealing with the kids. You asked if I needed anything, and I said no. That was it.

Paul Wurth:

And that’s funny.

Nick Schiffer:

I was like, well, I wanted a, no thank you, smiley face. And then I would have known you weren’t mad at me.

Paul Wurth:

That’s funny. Emojis would actually go a long way. Maybe that’s why they’re so prevalent is because they can sort of deliver that context of what a word can’t.

Nick Schiffer:

And it’s funny, with clients, I try to be real personal in emails and texts but get to my point, like business oriented but I’ll add an exclamation point. And I’ve had someone be like, what are you yelling for? I’m like, whoa, no, no, no. That was supposed to be an excitement.

Paul Wurth:

That’s the other thing.

Nick Schiffer:

Like, can’t wait to get it started. Not like …

Paul Wurth:

I’ll find myself doing way too many exclamation points, to bring some sort of color to it. Although, I’m not that kind of excited person. Like sure, exclamation point, blah, blah, blah, exclamation points, stop.

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah, right. And it’s like, what’s he on? What’s his problem right now? He’s yelling sure …

Paul Wurth:

Too many coffees.

Nick Schiffer:

… now, he’s really mad at me.

Paul Wurth:

That’s funny. We have to talk to the contractor about that, Zoom has maybe led to a situation where you maybe wouldn’t have with being in-person, that’s funny.

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah. I mean, I just think that the human interaction, at least for what we do, we’re so involved, we’re so collaborative with our approach. And we’re working on high-end homes and there’s a lot of emotional investment on all parties here. So, to not have that face-to-face time and that in-person time, especially early on, I think it’s just way harder to filter whether or not the project is the right fit. After that, I think it’s great. I think it’s a great tool. I think it’s great for check-ins. I think reviewing contracts.

A lot of stuff has become more digital. I knew when going into this, regardless if we were going to get shut down or what, is that I wanted to streamline the things that we did by digitizing a lot of it – our contracts, the back and forth, emailing, downloading a PDF, finding a document, whatever it was, making this stuff easier to navigate through today’s world, right?

Paul Wurth:

Yeah.

Nick Schiffer:

This is just a massive learning opportunity for the entire world, but we’ll speak specifically to our industry. I think it’s a massive opportunity for all of us to learn on how to improve efficiency.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah. A lot of people say it was coming, it was slowly coming, and this was just a big push forward, the pandemic, which I think was one of the positive things we can come out of this. The other positive thing is that construction really has boomed, what do you attribute that to?

Nick Schiffer:

Interesting, yeah.

Paul Wurth:

I get some of it. The general thing would be like, people are in their home more, they’re staring at the wall they’ve always hated, blah, blah. Sure. Is there a little bit of that? Yeah. But new home construction is booming like everything is, so what is that?

Nick Schiffer:

At least for us, I think it’s just everyone exiting the cities, wanting more space, like hey, you know what, maybe it is time to have a backyard. This is an opportunity to actually move away from the hustle and bustle. Because let’s think about why people live in the city, right?

Paul Wurth:

Right.

Nick Schiffer:

For work. It’s close to work, cutting down commute. Well, if the entire world goes work from home, it’s like, wait. I can do my job from home. I don’t have to live in the city anymore. Let’s take the million-dollar condo we have and go buy a house four times the size for a million bucks in the suburbs.

Paul Wurth:

Well, I think the other thing is too, it’s not just people who work for the company X that’s downtown Boston, but it’s like even if … I think people felt like they had to be in the mix of things, like networking and having coffees, and they would be missing out. And I think this made people realize, no, if you have a strong online network, and you have strong relationships, there’s plenty of spaces do that online. Right?

Nick Schiffer:

Right. I mean, I would agree with that. I don’t think that’s going to go away, but I think that’s where you’re seeing a lot of the people that have made it, right?

Paul Wurth:

Mm-hmm.

Nick Schiffer:

They’re comfortable. They’ve network. They’re in a position where they’re really content in their career, and they’ll continue to grow, but they don’t need to continue to be part of the sea, right?

Paul Wurth:

Right. So, they realized that.

Nick Schiffer:

Where it’s like, we’re at a point where we were always planning to leave the city, this is an opportunity where we can leave the city and not have it impact my work. Or, I’m out of work and it’s time for me to move. It’s like, let me restart my life now instead of restarting it today and in five years.

Paul Wurth:

Right.

Nick Schiffer:

So, I just think the new home sales, people are looking for more space. I live in the city in South Boston and the market is ludicrous. The amount of rentals right now is in the hundreds and the rent rate is so low, to the point where we … my wife and I joke, it’s like, we could rent our house out for more money than our mortgages and then go rent a place down the street for less money.

Paul Wurth:

Right. And still come up …

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah. And still be in a great spot. It’s just, I think people are realizing that it’s an opportunity for them to reconsider the city lifestyle.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah, that’s super interesting.

Nick Schiffer:

I don’t think it will ever go away. The media says that New York is dying, I don’t think that’s necessarily the case.

Paul Wurth:

Jerry Seinfeld had something to say about that. No, I don’t think it will go away. I think there’s just a restructuring and the people who really want to be there will be there and new people will come in, by the way.

Nick Schiffer:

100%.

Paul Wurth:

Right. It’s just sort of a shuffling of everything, which I think is really interesting. We don’t have that issue here in Nebraska, the big city, that kind of thing but. So, I guess for people who don’t know, which there are probably very few since you have like 125,000 followers on Instagram, but tell the listeners about NS Builders. Just brief overview, you and your team.

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah sure. So, I started the company as a carpentry company seven years ago, and we’ve grown into an almost 20-person, high-end home building and remodeling company here in Boston. We focus on primarily remodels and renovations, getting into some new construction, custom homes, and we also have an in-house cabinet and millwork shop, where we handle everything from design, fabrication, as well as installation.

Paul Wurth:

Alright. So, if you’re in Boston, lookup Nick. If not, it doesn’t really matter. Tell your friends.

Nick Schiffer:

You can still look me up.

Paul Wurth:

You can still look him up. Follow him on Instagram. This is the third time on the podcast, so hopefully people know you already.

Nick Schiffer:

Well, they can follow me on TikTok, too. I joined TikTok.

Paul Wurth:

Oh my.

Nick Schiffer:

But I’m just not good at it.

Paul Wurth:

I still don’t know what it is.

Nick Schiffer:

I’ve been watching those shuffle videos, I just can’t figure it out.

Paul Wurth:

I mean, it’s so funny. My wife’s on TikTok for her business and then my kids of course are on it. My daughter, who was 11, was helping hang the lights on our roof, and I look over and she’s doing a TikTok on the roof, I was like, okay. This has gone too far. Stop.

Nick Schiffer:

She’s like, dad, I’ve got a million likes overnight.

Paul Wurth:

She’s like, check it out. But no. I mean, TikTok, I mean, it’s just so big. When those things are happening, you got to do it. And then that’s a good point, for people to know you’ve really doubled down, I guess. You’ve invested time and money into your social media and we’ve talked at length about how that’s helped your business, I still don’t think enough construction companies are doing it, but that decision came pretty organically or what was that like for you?

Nick Schiffer:

It did. I mean, to think back early on when I started the company, it was myself and a helper at the time my cousin or my brother, I just wanted to share. I’ve always liked to share what I do, it’s just I have fun with it. I like getting feedback. I like knowing how I can improve, and the best way to do that is kind of put the work on a pedestal and have everyone knock it off. Right?

Paul Wurth:

Mm-hmm.

Nick Schiffer:

So, early on, I realized social media was an opportunity to do that. And I actually remember who it was and what they reached out to me for, but someone had reached out saying, hey, listen, I follow you. I think we should connect and I’d like you to do some work for us. It was right then and there. I was like, I can use this as a platform.

Paul Wurth:

For sure.

Nick Schiffer:

So, my personality, it’s obsessive. When I realize something works or when I realize I like something, I want to know everything about it.

Paul Wurth:

You go.

Nick Schiffer:

And it’s like then I went down this rabbit hole. I caught on to Gary Vaynerchuk when he was just starting out in the social media world, I shouldn’t say just starting out but early days of him, and just paying attention to what he was doing.

And that’s who really I attribute a lot of what I brought into my industry is that, he was just documenting; doing the selfie stories, talking about it on Snapchat, on Instagram. And I just started realizing that this was an opportunity for us to showcase our work, and I wanted to do it in as organically as possible. It’s grown and now we have Doug on our team who handles all the awesome video that we do.

So, there is this level of filter to what you get to see, the cool work, but I’ve used that side of it to really market towards who I want to be working for. And I have to think of that really carefully where it’s like, we might do a lot of traditional work, but ideally, I wanted to do more contemporary. So, I have to be selective with what I show because if I keep showing that I’m doing traditional, I just get hired for traditional.

Paul Wurth:

Right.

Nick Schiffer:

So, we’ve been able to curate like, hey, this is the work we do and this is what we want to do and just be really open and about it. And then through others like LinkedIn and YouTube, there’s always all these avenues where I get to share different aspects of the business where it’s like sometimes I’m talking peer-to-peer, sometimes I’m talking to a client, sometimes I’m talking to a prospective client. So, all of those things are … I have to consider those things, depending on what platform I’m on.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah. It’s weird. I don’t know if they started this way, but every platform has got its own identity, and it’s becoming more and more clear every day. LinkedIn, definitely business like, it’s professionals connecting, in my opinion. Twitter feels like it’s just news, right?

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah.

Paul Wurth:

It’s sort of what’s going on industry-wise. Facebook feels like it’s morphing into this whole other thing.

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah. It’s community-based, it’s like you want to talk to your neighbors. The thing about Facebook, and this is something that I shouldn’t be necessarily spending my time doing it, but I actually really enjoy the marketing and sales targeting side of things. Where it’s like, when I start understanding the process of sales and the psychology behind sales and then connecting that to Facebook ad trafficking, the fact that I can traffic an ad to you, Paul, in Nebraska it’s like, I only want Paul to see it. And I can go through this list and get you to see just an ad for what I want. So, that’s been an interesting kind of side project they work on at night. It’s like, hey, if I want to work for a particular client, I have the opportunity to only talk to those clients.

Paul Wurth:

That is what’s great about that. You mentioned something like the type of work you want to do contemporary, what’s that about? Is that just your own sort of how your eyes sees that’s what you like or is there a clientele associated with that you … is it both?

Nick Schiffer:

No, I don’t think it’s a clientele. I say that, but I also wonder if I am wrong there because contemporary tends to be more expensive when it’s done well. When I say done well, I think that’s really key because I feel like the word modern and contemporary and luxury are so diluted these days where it’s … that’s not true modern architecture when they’re marketing it as new, modern, luxury apartments, they’re diluting the word.

But true modernism and contemporary like West Coast style, hillside homes, Australian architecture, that stuff, it’s just, I’m obsessed with it, it’s so well done. And the reason why is because everything is so intentional and really, really thoughtful, so there’s just really clean lines. It’s very simple. The use of materials is really just incredibly well thought out and that’s what really, I appreciate.

Now, I don’t want to pigeonhole myself because I actually really appreciate traditional. I love interior trim, I love when it’s done well. And I look at it in two different lights, where I think our custom builds will always be client-driven, and I don’t know if we’ll ever get to a point where our customs are only contemporary.

Maybe we’ll get to a point where NS Builders broke the contemporary market, they’re the best contemporary builder, that’s the only thing they build. Right now, I don’t see that. I see if we get into building a spec or a for-sale property, yes, then I see us building what I envision in my head as a product. Because I believe that Boston it will support it, it just that people don’t have that option when they’re out there looking for a home.

Paul Wurth:

Right. In your market.

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah, in our market where it’s … what if we put it on our market, it might get to a point where it’s like, yeah, I’ve been waiting to come and do it.

Paul Wurth:

For sure, it is. I’m sure. I mean, you guys are so big, 100% somebody is waiting for that. So, I want to talk to you about that because you have a wildly popular podcast, I recommend that we listen to it, “The Modern Craftsman.” It’s you and a couple of other construction industry people, Johnny and Tyler. And so, we’ll link to that because it’s definitely every Monday, it’s on my list, I listen to it. So, it’s called “The Modern Craftsman.”

And I wanted to ask you, I think we’ve talked about this before, is a part of that you guys trying to bring some sort of quality back to the market? Maybe it started that way, maybe it’s not anymore. I want you to talk about that. But then I’ve always wanted to ask you this question which is, I’m sure you don’t, but do you look down on building companies who are out there to make a profit and like, hey, here’s the market. They want these condos. I’m just going to bang them out and make some money. You know what I mean?

Nick Schiffer:

No. I understand your question, and I know it’s deeper than that, so let me do my best to answer it. I don’t look down on companies that are looking to make a profit. I would look down on a company that is intentionally putting out inferior products or dangerous products for a dangerous living.

Paul Wurth:

Right, I think that’s it.

Nick Schiffer:

If you’re intentionally putting out a product that you know, I’m going to just use the word dangerous whatever that means, whether it’s structurally dangerous, mold, whatever. If you’re intentionally doing it, yes, I think you’re scum.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah. That’s what’s given this industry, in some ways, a really bad name.

Nick Schiffer:

Right. The reference that you make as far as, no, we just we’re in here. We’re going to turn and burn 150 homes this year, I don’t look down on that. There’s a huge market for that and that market’s never going to go away. I would say the majority of people in this world, really don’t care what their house looks like.

If I got a roof over my head, and I don’t have to deal with anything, I’m good. They just have to understand it’s a different market. It’s so easy to refer to cars. It’s like going out and buying a Camry or going out and buy a Ferrari. You’re not buying the Ferrari because it’s going to get you from point A to point B in a better manner, it’s because you want to spend a lot of money on a fancy car.

Paul Wurth:

Or you appreciate high-end quality.

Nick Schiffer:

Exactly. There’s an appreciation for whatever your motive might be. It’s just a different market. And I think people attribute homes differently than that and they shouldn’t because it’s the guy building track homes versus the guy building customs. Yes, it’s classified as a home, but it’s a totally different product.

Paul Wurth:

Absolutely. So your modern craftsman sort of vibe, is more about people under … I guess, is it about people understanding the amount of thought and craft and hard work that goes into making something truly custom or truly good quality?

Nick Schiffer:

You know what, Paul, it’s hard to answer that. But the show is about peer-to-peer, it’s not about a client listening and be like, yeah, I got to hire Nick. It’s so much about peer-to-peer in the sense that when we’re talking to individuals, ourselves included, that we’re open and we talk about our challenges and how we build our business and things that you otherwise wouldn’t have had the opportunity to learn. And it’s even simple things like taxes, why don’t we learn in school what we’re going to pay in taxes if we start a business? It took me three years to figure that out.

Paul Wurth:

I think people are trying to figure out what people want to listen to, and I equate it to what I know. I’ve lived in sales business to business, specifically the construction companies, but I think there is a huge shift to content, and you can actually correlate that to sales. And you were just talking about that. You’re trying to maybe spend some more time on your sales process, and I think that’s great, and we should get into that. But people just want the real, they can go find everything online.

Nick Schiffer:

Right. It really comes down to being relatable. If you sit on a podcast and talk with a guy that has a super successful building company and talks about all the wealth he’s made and how many houses he builds, and he gets to work on Michael Jordan’s house and whatever, all these crazy things, it’s like, you know what? Man, I just can’t relate to this guy.

But if he started off the conversation where it’s like, yeah, I remember when it was me and my pickup. I had 50 bucks in my bank account, and I had to go back to fix this house that I couldn’t get … alright. Now we’re listening.

That’s the whole premise behind what we were trying to do is that we want to be in a position where we can talk and share stories and be relatable, so people don’t feel as though they’re alone because all of us at one point or the other felt as though, man, I am the only one in this industry that can’t get my sh*t together.

Paul Wurth:

Right. That’s a great point.

Nick Schiffer:

Even to this day, Paul, there’s times I drive home and I’m like, what am I doing? Everyone else has got this figured out. And I shake it and I’m like, no, I’m fooling myself. And especially nowadays, and it’s so easy like I said earlier, through social media there’s this level of filter, you’re getting only to see the cool, sexy stuff.

We try to do our best about being real and being open about our challenges and our failures because other people need that more than a lot of us understand, there’s guys out there struggling with depression. Now, we’re talking about mental health that is being compromised because of what this industry decides to showcase and what it decides to hide.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah. Anxiety gets used so much, that word. So part of me goes, man, we overuse that word. But maybe it needs to be chopped up and better defined or what that means, for the scenario you’re in. But what you’re basically saying is, every business owner when they’re on an island, they have this anxiety about, why am I in this position? Has everybody been in this position once? Or am I going to make it through it?

Basically, through listening to “The Modern Craftsman,” you guys do a great job of that by the way, all three of you do a good job of breaking that down. And basically, everybody’s been through those hard times. And I think when we talked about off-air before we got on is, let’s get details on that. Don’t just tell me you were broke and then you got a couple of jobs. How broke were you? Tell me that. And how’d you get out of it? Specifically, tell me that. Because as you said, that’s going to help so many more people out.

Nick Schiffer:

It’s funny, Paul, since you said that, I’m like, alright. Now every podcast going forward, I’m just going to ask … they’re going to try to keep moving forward, and I’m just going to keep pulling the rope like, no, no, no, we’re going backwards, man.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah. I love that. I think you should. Everybody loves, I guess not everybody loves Joe Rogan, but Joe Rogan’s the podcast king, but he’s got four-hour podcasts, and I find myself liking those the most because it’s just there’s no timetable, let’s just have the conversation.

Nick Schiffer:

Right. Exactly. I Know I listen to him a lot, but when I do listen to him I listen to him with two different motives. I’m interested in what they’re talking about, but I’m even more interested in the way Joe interviews. Where it’s, he really lets the guests talk and the only time he’s interrupting is when they skate over something where it’s just like you said, yeah. I started my company and I was really broke. And then I’ve been that. whoa-whoa-whoa, you just skimmed over the fact that you were really broke.

And that’s the way he approaches these things and makes sure that … I think I attribute this to kind of how I do it on our podcast is that, I’m trying to be the advocate for the listener. I know that the moment the listener, there’s times where it’s like, wait a second, he’s contradicting himself. If I don’t call him out for contradicting what he just said, everyone’s going to discredit this podcast.

Paul Wurth:

Or, they’re just going to lose interest.

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah. It’s like, this guy’s lying. And it’s awkward, too, right?

Paul Wurth:

Mm-hmm.

Nick Schiffer:

I mean, it’s Zoom, so it’s a little less awkward but I’m like, whoa, 10 minutes ago you said something different. Where’s this coming from? Or just asking the question of, yeah. I bought the company off my dad. And, alright. Well, how much did you buy the company off your dad for?

Paul Wurth:

Right. Where’d you get the money?

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah. And he’s like, oh well … And I’m like, dude, this is what people are listening to? And they’re going to be screaming at their radio, if we don’t ask these questions.

Paul Wurth:

Right. If we wanted to tune into, like you said, the filter version, we’ve got that all day long. You see the filtered picture of the happiest couple in the world on a beach, but what you didn’t see is how he stepped on her dress 10 minutes earlier, and she yelled at him or vice versa. I would rather see all that and then that gives me context of it all and I appreciate more if I saw the whole thing. So, the other podcast …

Nick Schiffer:

People are scared.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah, exactly. I think you nailed it. They want to know they’re in the boat with somebody else, not alone or at some point, somebody’s been in that same boat with them.

Nick Schiffer:

One other point I wanted to mention is, you also have to teeter the scale where it’s like, I have to remain professional enough because if I spill everything … There’s this point where it’s like, alright, does this guy have any idea what he’s doing? Why would I hire him? Right?

Paul Wurth:

Yeah.

Nick Schiffer:

So, it’s, you have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable and kind of teeter that scale like, being authentic and true but also being professional.

Paul Wurth:

Right. But this is what I know now. There’s this great adage of, if you’re a contractor and you come in, and you fix something in 10 minutes, it’s like, well, you’re not paying me for my 10 minutes, you’re paying me for my 20 years of learning that 10 minutes. So, I think even explaining that you didn’t know at all, doesn’t mean that you don’t know it all now or well on it.

So again, I mean, I can’t tell people not to listen to “The Modern Craftsman” podcast because it is sort of long form, which is great, throw it on and do your work or work out over because it’s great. But then you spoke of another one. I just wonder from your perspective, what are the differences of the two different podcasts you have?

Nick Schiffer:

The one we just recently launched?

Paul Wurth:

Yeah. It’s the “Nick Schiffer Podcast.”

Nick Schiffer:

The “Nick Schiffer Podcast.” So, that one is just more, it’s like 10, 15 minutes spurts. And we have the extensive video catalog, and we just get a lot of questions where it’s like … I just looked at one just before we hopped on, it’s like, I’d love you to dig into how you review your employees. What’s that look like?

Paul Wurth:

Perfect.

Nick Schiffer:

And I’m like, we could talk about this for hours, but let’s just do a 10, 15 minute interview on it. I mean, very recently, as in two episodes ago, I’m bringing in one of my guys because I’m way better when it’s conversational whereas like if two of us are chatting.

I want Ken’s perspective. I want Mike and Nick and any. I want my team’s perspective on what I’m saying, because when it’s just me staring at a camera I feel as though I’m speaking truthfully, but at the same time there’s times where I question like, alright, is that in fact what I do when I’m onsite? And having that feedback, I think, there’s some legitimacy to that.

It’s really specific about one topic, we dig into it, I get as in-depth and transparent as I can. And that’s really just an addition to “The Modern Craftsman,” it’s just another opportunity where … let’s talk about personal brand, then there’s the business brand. But personal brand, I’ve always chose the authentic and the transparent approach and the open to share because if I don’t answer the question as to how we do reviews someone else is going to, right?

Paul Wurth:

Yeah.

Nick Schiffer:

Or, it’s like, how do you estimate a project? Or, can you share how you do this? the trade secret. If don’t share it, someone else is going to share it anyway and then they become the professional in the industry and I’m discredited, and I’m forgotten about.

Paul Wurth:

Because I ask a lot of people this, I ask a lot of people who share really very specific ways you do things as a business that’s made you successful. Is the way you think of it like, why keep that a secret because I can execute? You’re not worried because there’s knowing how to do it and then there’s executing and both things have to happen in a pretty high degree to be really great.

Nick Schiffer:

Right, I mean, if they execute at the same level or better than me, great. The chances of that with anyone executing what someone else is telling them to do is low.

Paul Wurth:

Right, exactly.

Nick Schiffer:

But the other side of it, it’s pushing us to be innovative and constantly be on the leading edge. Like if we’re going to share something, then we better be better than that next time. But to go back to my original point. If we walk through the process and share how we do something, now we’re the professional that they come back to. Where if we don’t and they find another professional, that becomes their resource, and our reach is now narrowed because we’re holding too much tight to the chest.

Paul Wurth:

Right. I love that. I love the way think of that. I think for so many years in this industry because I’ve spoken to company owners and they’re just like, yeah, this is our secret. I don’t want competition. I think that’s transitioning, and I think it’s in a good way. It’s one of those things like, a rising tide lifts all ships. And I think we needed that to a certain degree because there’s just plenty of business to go get out there, and you shouldn’t be afraid of that.

Nick Schiffer:

And I do think that we’re getting to this era where there is a shift to that way more sharing, it’s way more collaboration. I think it’s Tom Silva that said it, collaboration over competition. Where it’s, let’s collaborate. And that’s the way I want to work.

When I can’t do a job or when a job isn’t the right fit for us, I hate when I can’t refer someone. I would love to have 10 guys in my back pocket where I could be like, yes, that’s a great fit for this guy. I have two that I shell out every once in a while, and it’s usually on the edge of like, I don’t know if this is a really good fit for them, but at least I know if they do take it they’ll do a good job.

Paul Wurth:

Or, at least they’ll handle that lead I guess, you give them, with care.

Nick Schiffer:

Right, exactly.

Paul Wurth:

And they’re not going to screw it up in some way. That’s important.

Nick Schiffer:

So, it is. It really should be way more collaborative than it is.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah. Well, I love it. The producing people behind this podcast always want to give this podcast a theme and right now it’s just Paul and Nick talking, which I think is great.

Nick Schiffer:

That might trend on Twitter, Paul and Nick talking.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah. So, one of those, the “Nick Schiffer Podcast,” let’s say I lob a question to you like, how do you plan for the year? So, people are planning for 2021 right now, so what does that look like with you or what’s advice to somebody out there? Because I think a lot of construction companies are in this boat, we don’t plan. We just like, boom, job, job, job. Let’s keep doing it. And that’s not a bad thing obviously, but if I was going to take the step to plan, what does it look from the most base?

Nick Schiffer:

So, you asked two questions here. So, the first question you asked is, how I would answer that? So, if someone lobed that question at me and say I didn’t plan, or I didn’t know, I would still answer it because number one, I want to answer the question, but I would walk through like, hey, I don’t plan for the year. And this is why.

Now, the second question is, what am I doing for 2021? The interesting thing with 2020 was that a lot of things kept getting delayed, so we didn’t have as many jobs starts as we had intended. So, while we remained busy, while we continued to work, thankfully we were able to … we actually brought in another project to allow us to keep working. We didn’t have the expected job starts and completions that we set out to. So, that throws off our 2020.

And in one mindset, it’s tough because you’re, at least for me, I think of like, oh my gosh, we’re going to end 2020 on this terrible note. And then January 1 is all of a sudden this brand new, fresh page of paper. It’s like, wait a second …

Paul Wurth:

It doesn’t work.

Nick Schiffer:

… that’s not reality. It’s like, you’re just going to keep on going. Let’s focus on Q1, forget Q4. What are we doing for Q1 Q2? So, for us, it’s really been a matter of preparing for the projects that we can control, preparing for getting the right job starts in line. We’ve taken opportunities this year.

For me, a lot of reflecting of who I am as a leader, taking more time to sit down with my people and understand where I was screwing up, what was I looking at? I could see morale drop. I could see communication drop. I could see issues internally and externally. And I realized that it was me, it was my approach to handling everything that we handled this year.

Looking at 2021 it’s like, alright. If we’re going to go after the clientele we want, the projects that we want, the things that we want, here’s an opportunity for us to: hunker down, work internally, improve our systems, hire the right people, get the people that we have in the right positions, work with them to set and obtain their goals professionally and personally and then work towards that. And really just allowing the company as a whole to talk to me and explain what works, what doesn’t, what needs to improve, how can I make their job better and taking that and then implementing it.

But also from the other side of it is being unapologetic to the point where I know what we want, and I know that we’re young as a company, but I’m going to go after it. And we’re going to put ourselves in positions to be in the projects that we deserve to be in because I know the quality that we can put out, and I know the execution that we can obtain, and I know that we’re fit to go after some of these projects that we otherwise haven’t had the opportunity to.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah. That’s a great sort of like ethos for a business, right?

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah. I mean, it is. I genuinely believe that we’re in a position where we can go after the things that we really want, but only if I take the time and we take the time to restructure and unite as a team and approach this and everyone gets on the same page, and everyone understands our why, everyone understands what we’re after, and everyone believes in it. That’s by far our step one and that’s really, as we wrap up Q4 here, that’s our focus going into Q1 is, reunite as a team and then go into the first quarter, second quarter, essentially just charging towards that next goal.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah. Is it fair to say that I’ve never been, obviously, a construction business owner? You have, and we talked to so many of them, is it fair to say that a good piece of advice would really take a stock of the things you can control and focus on those? Let me just kind of why I said is, I think a lot of people are worried about the market and what’s coming next and what’s the stock market could do and how’s that going to affect people’s willingness to buy and all that kind of thing. And you really can’t control that. So, is it fair to say that a good piece of advice would be, take stock of what you can control; your employees, your processes, your sales process, make sure you follow up on every lead, that kind of thing. Is that fair?

Nick Schiffer:

It is fair. And it’s funny, I got the chills when you said that because yesterday … I don’t know if you’re a Jocko fan.

Paul Wurth:

And what’s that?

Nick Schiffer:

Jocko Willink, he’s a Navy SEAL, author, podcast.

Paul Wurth:

No.

Nick Schiffer:

He’s just a leadership guy. He’s all about leadership. And this guy, Spencer Lewis, on Instagram inside our commentary posted this story, and I hope he listens to this. A dog peed on his tools in the garage. But he wrote back and he posted a photo of it, and he wrote, good. I’m glad they did it. And he writes good because you know what, that toolbox needed to be cleaned.

And I dug into it more and reminded myself of his Jocko’s mentality of, hey, the market crashed. Good, now it gives us the opportunity to restructure. Hey, COVID-19 hit, and you got to shut down. Good, it gives you the opportunity to restructure and talk and figure out how to improve. Hey, you lost that big job. Good, now you have time to refocus and go after another one. Hey, this client sucks and is driving you crazy and maybe won’t pay you. Good, now you’ll restructure your contract and make sure you’re protected for the next one.

And it’s really hard. And even for me, when I saw that just two days ago I was like, you know what, that’s how my mind was in 2019. And 2020, I’ve let it impact me too much where it’s like, I need to look at this as an opportunity of good. So, I think you’re absolutely spot on that, what can I control? I can’t control if the client’s going to be a dink or not, I have to roll with it. If they’re a great client, good. If they’re a bad client, good.

Paul Wurth:

Right.

Nick Schiffer:

And how do we learn from that? How do we come out and improve on that? And it’s a much better mentality. And it’s so much easier from like you talked about earlier, anxiety, where it’s like you could sit there and worry about getting paid from that client and that’s a real thing.

Paul Wurth:

For sure.

Nick Schiffer:

That could put someone out of business, there’s no doubt about that, including myself. I’m not exempt from that. But if I let that control my thought process, I end up on these worst-case scenario not paid, worst-case scenario can’t pay rent, worst-case scenario can’t pay payroll. And then all of a sudden, next thing I know, I lose my house in this trail of mine of thoughts.

Where it’s like all of those are worst-case scenario. What if best-case scenario he pays you tomorrow? It’s like, why aren’t you thinking of that or somewhere in between? I think it’s absolutely fair to say, focus on what you can control and appreciate the things that you can’t.

Paul Wurth:

I just saw one of those Instagram posts that target sales or whatever, but there’s an inch of truth to everything. It’s like 2020 was where I was going to go get everything I didn’t have, but I realized 2020 is where I appreciate everything I did have.

Nick Schiffer:

Yeah, there’s truth in there.

Paul Wurth:

There’s a silver lining there. Alright. We’ll end on some good notes there. Nick, always appreciate the time, man.

Nick Schiffer:

Likewise, my man.

Paul Wurth:

This is the third time having you on, and we’ll hopefully get you again. Good luck in 2021, keep killing it. Everybody listening, go listen to “The Modern Craftsman,” subscribe. The “Nick Schiffer Podcast” is new, subscribe there. And then you’re on YouTube and LinkedIn and all that stuff, right?

Nick Schiffer:

We do, yeah. We’re coming in with some heavy YouTube content.

Paul Wurth:

Awesome. Love YouTube, so check them out there. Again, wish you the best of my man. I appreciate it.

Nick Schiffer:

Take care, man. Be well.

Paul Wurth:

See you.

Alright, everyone. Thanks again for listening to this episode of “The Building Code.” Remember to rate, review and subscribe, wherever you listen to the podcast. Help us grow this community of listeners. Tell your friends, tell your family, we do appreciate it. And if you heard anything that you want to learn more about on today’s episode, head out to the show notes website buildertrend.com/podcast. As always, we appreciate you.