The invisible job: What it actually takes to keep a luxury build calm, week after week

Adam Copenhaver (00:00):

How long winded I can get. <laugh> <laugh>

Carly Ward (00:04):

Uh, I, I may have had some intel. <laugh> But you know what? Birds of a feather. So, uh, normally Adam’s the one knocking on the window going, uh, let’s, let’s wrap it up, Carly.

Jordan Coolidge (00:15):

My, my back’s to the window, so if you get me going, Adam and, Adam and I might just go rogue, so that’s fine.

Carly Ward (00:22):

Or should I just dip off and you guys take over? <laugh> Carly,

Jordan Coolidge (00:25):

Get out of here. We’re just gonna keep talking. That’s fine.

Carly Ward (00:28):

<laugh> Well, I don’t think that I’ve had the, the chance to meet you yet, Adam. I’ve heard a lot about you guys, um, and know obviously that you guys, uh, work out of Charleston, custom luxury home builders and, uh, started with your brother about 15, I think, uh, no, about 10 years ago in 2015. Mm-hmm. Um, we, we were hearing a little bit about Sam’s story and he’s been with you guys for about two years. Um, but for those that are listening that might not be as familiar with you guys, um, I know that you guys have kind of built your brand on, uh, providing the grand experience. I’m curious, like, how, how’d you get to that point? How’d you buy

Adam Copenhaver (01:05):

It? Um, uh, yeah, I think that from the beginning, it’s always, you know, Ben and I, we, we sought after a better way. You know, we just knew that there was a better way, um, to have relationships, uh, to conduct business, to build teams, to live within a culture. And so the way that you try to put words to tougher emotional feelings and what you come up with is an experience or a grand experience. And it just so happened that, you know, CopeGrand was where we landed on the business name when we created it, I guess 11 years ago now, um, the business name officially. So, um, yeah, that’s how we came across that.

Carly Ward (01:46):

Amazing. Um, and when you think about, uh, you know, the, the grand experience, you know, before we kind of start getting into it, um, in just a couple of key words, how, how would you describe it?

Adam Copenhaver (02:01):

Um, an emotion of security, um, and being cared for.

Carly Ward (02:09):

I love that. Well, I’m excited to dive into it. We’re gonna do something a little different to kinda kick things off today. Um, so we’re gonna do a would you rather builder edition where we’re just gonna do some kind of like rapid fire questions, um, obviously construction related. Um, but, uh, th- this is meant for both you and Sam, but kinda wanna hear, hear you guys quick on your feet and, uh, s- s – hear your insights. So I’ll let, uh, Jordan kinda kick it off.

Jordan Coolidge (02:36):

Yeah. I, I’m a big would you rather fan. I, I would say I do this, you know, with, with my friends, with my, with my wife. Usually not about, like, construction, but, uh, but, but we’ll, we’ll keep them to construction this time. So, you know, for, for you guys, and again, feel free, one of you, both of you can, can chime in on any, any of these, but would you rather lose a day to weather or lose a day to a material delay on one of your jobs?

Adam Copenhaver (03:05):

All right. So we’re gonna have fun with this, right? This,

Jordan Coolidge (03:07):

This sounds really

Adam Copenhaver (03:08):

Good.

Jordan Coolidge (03:09):

Absolutely.

Adam Copenhaver (03:10):

I thought Jordan, you were gonna give us, like, some, you know, these kind of. If, if this is how they continue, this is a layup. Oh,

Carly Ward (03:16):

Yeah. Bills are PRs. This is

Adam Copenhaver (03:17):

Definitely a layup. Weather or material shortage or m- material delay. Sam, what do you got? I know what I want.

Sam Wilson (03:26):

I’m gonna say weather. I have a feeling I’m gonna steal your answer, but I’m definitely gonna say weather. Um, it is, you know, it, it does hinder some progress depending on where we’re at on the construction side, but what it does do is enable us to really buckle down and get into the office and catch up on the things that, that may have been sliding just because of busyness in the field. But, um, you know, we believe it’s a really good opportunity to, to play catch up in the office on those kind of days.

Adam Copenhaver (03:51):

Yeah. No, no dead days, right? Um, so a weather day is certainly another opportunity to get caught up on office work. Um, the way that we run our projects, no dead days, also with our look ahead process, there really isn’t a good opportunity or reason for a material delay. Um, sure, people are human. Um, as a matter of fact, I’m thinking about one scenario right now with some awesome Rocky Mountain Hardware that got ordered incorrectly by the folks we ordered it through and, and there’s material delay there. So we don’t like those things. We do the best we can to flush them out and vet them out. But, uh, that is the reason why, Sam, you were right. I’m going with the weather delay too. It’s

Jordan Coolidge (04:29):

Always, it’s always good. It’s always good when you agree on, on the answer, but, uh, maybe, maybe we’ll disagree on some of this as well.

Carly Ward (04:36):

I kind of hope so.

Jordan Coolidge (04:37):

Uh, no, I, I, I love the concept of, uh, no dead days. Uh, I think, uh, yeah, weather, weather delays are an opportunity to work on other things that maybe don’t get the time and attention, uh, when everything’s, you know, just kind of go, go, go. Uh, I love that. So, uh, next one, would you rather have a client that over-communicates or under communicates proactively with you?

Sam Wilson (05:04):

Yeah, I mean, I’ll go ahead and I, I believe I’ll steal his answer again. <laugh> I tell all of our clients that I would rather you over communicate, um, to the point where, I mean, you know, you’re not gonna bother me, um, because in, we’re in a, a game of custom building, and I wanna make sure that we capture what you want, um, because that’s what we’re here for. And if, you know, you wouldn’t, you need to talk through a fireplace layout three to four times, then let’s do that. Um, because what I cannot do is, is build what you want without you telling me what you want. Um, and so I would much rather have someone over communicating to me, um, than being sort of hard to track down. Mm-hmm.

Adam Copenhaver (05:39):

Yeah, I think that’s a great answer, Sam. I could just probably leave it alone, but I’m, I’m going back more towards the behavioral side of things here. I think that each of us, Jordan and Carly, um, enjoy experiencing things in a different way. Um, and much like our clients, the way that they communicate, uh, might be unique to them. Uh, what pleases them through, you know, a parable maybe here to the love languages, like which one of these things do you appreciate the most? Mm-hmm. Well, without getting to understand what our clients’ desires are, what they’re looking to do, certainly as we build these bespoke custom houses and it’s not just plan A, B, or C, we constantly are trying to ask for communication of, “Hey, would you like this warm today? Would you like it cold today? Would you like it?” You know, this experience, this grand experience is a dynamic one.

Adam Copenhaver (06:27):

Um, and without communication, it couldn’t possibly be as unique as we want it to be to their behavioral style, to their preferences, to their likeness. So 100% over communicate the whole way through.

Jordan Coolidge (06:39):

Love that. Speaking of communication, I, I’m, I’m curious, uh, maybe Sam, you’re, you’re maybe more directly, uh, involved with this, you know, from the project management side, but as far as ways of communicating with customers, obviously there’s proactive communication on your end, but also receiving communication. How do your customers typically communicate to you? Do, do you kind of siphon them to, “Hey, it should be a phone call, it should be a text.” What, yeah, what, what are the methods of communication kind of look like?

Sam Wilson (07:11):

I mean, all forms are welcome, to be honest. Um, obviously, like, the more, the more formal communication is typically through email. Um, but, you know, once, once projects are off the ground and, and rolling, and we’ve got them out of pre-con in the field, I, I’ll start a group chat with text, just for those little quick questions – uh-huh. Um, that can just be answered quickly via phone call or, or like I said, a text. Um, but if there is a more, uh, formal change or, or something that needs to be hashed out, uh, I do prefer email.

Jordan Coolidge (07:39):

Yeah. That makes total sense. So, so the next one, these might kind of fly in the face of each other, but, uh, I, I think this happens on, on jobs anyway. So would you rather run a project with a flawless budget, but a messy schedule and a little bit more of miscommunication on, on when people need to be at the job site? Or would you rather have a tight schedule, everyone’s on time, everyone knows when they need, when they need to be there, but a little bit more of a messy budget? What, what’s the priority look like there?

Sam Wilson (08:16):

Man, I, they both sound terrible. <laugh> But

Jordan Coolidge (08:19):

Neither. Good answer, good answer.

Sam Wilson (08:22):

Um, if I had to pick one, I would probably pick flawless budget and a messy schedule, um, just for how my mind works. Um, that would, a messy budget would potentially stress me out more than a couple of delays.

Jordan Coolidge (08:34):

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sam Wilson (08:37):

And I’m sure our clients would agree.

Jordan Coolidge (08:38):

Mm, sure. Adam?

Adam Copenhaver (08:42):

Um, it is, Sam’s right. It’s difficult choice, right? Um, I think that my next question would be, well, well, who’s it for? What’s our client? What’s their goals? What’s their mission? And I would choose the one that is most important to them and I’d roll with that.

Carly Ward (08:59):

Mm-hmm. No, that’s a really good answer because – Yeah. I imagine not all customers are created equal in that regard where, you know, some might be willing to give and take on, you know, one side of the fence or the other. It’s kind of le – I’m gonna steal this question from you – Yeah, go, go for it. Because, uh, I, I, I’m very curious. <laugh> So, um, in terms of m – delivering bad news to clients, um, is the preference email? Are we doing it phone call, in person?

Sam Wilson (09:30):

Phone call, for sure. I definitely think it’s, it’s a more personal way of getting ahead of something. Um, and I just, I feel as though it’s, it’s always better delivered. I, um, personally, I would rather deliver it person to person, but that’s not always the case. Sure. We have clients that don’t live here, um, or we have clients that just maybe not be available that day, but I would certainly, uh, uh, deliver bad news with a phone call versus an email.

Carly Ward (09:53):

Yeah. And –

Adam Copenhaver (09:56):

Yep, 100%.

Carly Ward (09:57):

And, and diving into it a little bit further, um, if you ha – if you guys happen to notice a mistake that’s early on in the project that maybe there’s some potential that we can make up for it, are you guys communicating that pretty promptly or are you trying to make up for it before we have to deliver any news?

Adam Copenhaver (10:20):

I’ll take this one. I, I, well, I’ll go first, Sam, but, um, the, the reality is I think it’s, it’s how urgent is the issue that came up. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, that’s a, that’s probably the first triage. Um, but folks hire us because of our experience, our experience in dealing with things that do come up. Um, certainly in construction, there’s no lack of, um, individuals that are on site, uh, bits and parts and pieces that are uniquely built just for them. So if there’s something that comes up, it’s our role to be solving for that. So it’s not our role, and I do believe there are people out there, you know, builders or contractors that are out there that make every issue the client’s issue, but part of the grand experience is that’s not our case, right? We’re managing those issues. We’re managing those, uh, managing the problem solving process.

Adam Copenhaver (11:10):

So if something does come up that needs to come to their attention, it’s likely coming fairly quickly with a list of things that we’re doing to mitigate that or things that we’re doing to solve that. And do we need any feedback from them?

Sam Wilson (11:24):

Yeah, I agree with that. Um, if it’s certainly a problem that the client has to be involved with, uh, then I’m getting on it immediately. But what I, what I do try to do is make sure that I have several solutions available to offer to them before I bring them a problem. Uh, no one likes the guy that just points out problems with no solutions. So if I do catch a problem, chances are, uh, I’m working with another team member or myself to try to figure out what the solution is, uh, so that way when I go to the client with it, I can say, “Hey, this is what happened, but here’s what we’re gonna do about it.”

Carly Ward (11:55):

Love that. Jordan, you got any last one, uh, would you rathers? I

Jordan Coolidge (12:00):

Got, I got one, one more for you. Uh, in, in general, uh, do you prefer working with clients that have, like, big personalities and, uh, you know, are a little bit more outgoing, uh, about how they feel? Or, uh, do you prefer kind of quiet, easygoing, go with the flow type clients? What, what in your experience, uh, has, has led to, to better outcomes for, for the client?

Sam Wilson (12:33):

Adam, you wanna take this one first? <laugh>

Adam Copenhaver (12:36):

Yeah, but I can’t keep anything simple. <laugh> Um, I’m gonna make sure that that client, you know, um, meets all of our rules for clients, which we’ve talked about previous on previous podcasts. So if you wanna hear what those are, go to one of the previous ones that we’ve done. Um, so as long as they meet the rules for clients, I think that, um, they’re a safe bet for our team. But without those rules, um, Jordan, um, is probably what you were looking for.

Adam Copenhaver (13:06):

Yep. I, I would prefer somebody that, um, that would trust the process the most, right? That would trust their team the most. Uh, oftentimes, maybe, I think if you use the word outspoken or, um, not necessarily high energy, but, but outspoken and wanting to domineer over whatever it might be, um, if they’re more controlling and wanna control the process, well, that’s really where chaos comes in. Um, because somebody else might be trying to push our process into a different area outside of predictable repeatable results in order to glorify whatever they’re trying to glorify or do whatever they’re trying to do, which takes us into unknown territory, right? And unknown territory, we might be able to manage that. However, there’s a lot more Murphy’s, ankle grabbers out there than there, than there is on, on our process. Yeah. The, the one that we know gets predictable, repeatable results.

Adam Copenhaver (13:59):

So I’m going with your ladder, Jordan. I’m going with somebody that can trust in our process and rely on it and get all of the value out of it – Yeah. Rather than trying to break it every single time by challenging what we’re doing or trying to go their own path.

Carly Ward (14:13):

Yeah.

Sam Wilson (14:15):

Yeah, I’ll agree with that. Um, I would definitely take the five quiet, easy ones. Um, and, you know, I’ve had the opportunity to work with both, uh, clients that would fit into this category, but, um, I would think that the ones with the big personality will often, uh, panic a little bit more than the five quiet, easy ones where, you know, there’s always some open-ended items, uh, going on throughout the project of construction. It just may not be time to tie that up yet. We, you know, we may be having to tie up three or four things before we tie that other one up. And if, you know, if we start panicking about the one that we can’t necessarily deal with yet, it will throw in the Murphys, like Adam was saying. Um, so I will take the five quiet, easy ones.

Carly Ward (14:57):

Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense, and it helps, at least for me, paint a picture of kind of your mentality as you guys are going into projects, whether things are going rock solid or, you know, maybe a little rocky. Um, and, you know, the whole point of today’s conversation is really digging into the customer experience, and not necessarily more so when things are falling off the rails, but when things are going to plan and the, the steps and the processes that you guys have put into place to make sure that you guys are, are checking all those boxes week by week and making sure that the client does have an amazing experience. And Sam, I know you’re the one, you know, living and breathing this every day. And so I wanna dig in a little bit to what a typical week looks like for you guys.

Carly Ward (15:42):

And again, when, when things are going to plan, um, and the things that you guys are doing with those clients to make sure that that experience is being maintained and you also are, uh, you know, staying on, on top of communication.

Sam Wilson (15:58):

Yeah. I mean, um, I would say that in the custom home building industry, um, every week does look a little bit different, but we do have these things that are like our mainstays, um, that, you know, maybe not be super boring, but will be super exciting to us because when we have a week where nothing really went wrong, that is very exciting for us. But it’s because we are so proactive and we stay on top of these things, you know, every morning I’m waking up, I’m, I’m getting into the schedule, I’m touching base with the trades, you know, are you gonna be here today? Are you gonna be, you know, what do you need from me for us to accomplish these things? Um, and then getting out to the site, quality control, walking with the trades that are on site, uh, making sure that everyone is on the same page.

Sam Wilson (16:45):

And then typically, you know, spend a few hours out in the field and then it’s back in the office where it’s budget and scope management, uh, looking ahead, you know, what’s up and what’s next and, um, getting into that.

Jordan Coolidge (16:58):

I, you, you mentioned, Sam, kind of the, the split between, like, being in the field, being in the office. What, what’s a typical week or, or day look like? I mean, you, you don’t have to necessarily give us how many clients you’re working with, although that, that, that works too. But, like, what’s that, what’s that split look like? Because from my experience in working with builders here at Buildertrend, I kind of get a lot of different answers of, of what a project manager’s day-to-day or, or week to week look like. I’m curious what that looks like for you, Sam.

Carly Ward (17:27):

Depends on the weather days. <laugh>

Jordan Coolidge (17:28):

Yeah, or the, yeah, we’ll say weather’s good for the week.

Sam Wilson (17:30):

Weather depending, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, at CopeGrand, the project managers also function as superintendent. So we’re out on the site, um, pretty much every day, weather depending, of course.

Sam Wilson (17:42):

Yeah. Um, but I would say it’s, it’s 60 / 40, uh, for most of the construction process, but towards the end, it can almost be, uh, fifty fifty or, or even more just because, you know, um, depending on where you’re at in the construction process, there may be a lot of paperwork that has to be done, a lot of finalizing the budget, a lot of, you know, we gotta wrap up these selections, let’s get this done. Um, but there may be a lot of, uh, quality control that’s having to happen. You know, I, I have a house that’s in framing right now, so it’s a lot of onsite making sure that everything at, on the site is going well, but as you sort of move towards the finish, you end up spending a little more time in the office wrapping everything up on the, uh, office side.

Sam Wilson (18:24):

But average week, I would say it’s probably 60% in the field, 40% in the office.

Carly Ward (18:30):

And I’m curious from, um, you know, looking at the things that you’re talking about that you do every week to ensure that customer experience, what is one of the more unglamorous aspects o- of those tasks, um, that if you guys just said, “Hey, we’re doing away with them for the month,” what, what would the client notice and how would that impact me? And, and I’m sure it’s things that, you know, your everyday client isn’t noticing, but is attributing to that bigger, better picture of a, amazing experience. Oh,

Sam Wilson (19:04):

Man. Um, cleaning. I would say cleaning. We, we have a pretty good reputation of having the cleanest job sites in Charleston, and I think all of our PMs really take that to heart. So they would absolutely notice, um, if I was not out there cleaning or sweeping up or, or organizing lumber or anything like that. Um, yeah.

Carly Ward (19:27):

And based off the sounds of it, it, it, it doesn’t sound like that’s something that you’re shy from doing, you know? I, I’m sure that’s a collective experience on the job site, but just based off of everything that I’ve, I’ve heard so far, you’re, you’re not afraid to pick up a broom.

Sam Wilson (19:40):

No, you gotta be able to push a broom to work at CopeGrand. Yeah. <laugh>

Adam Copenhaver (19:44):

Well, Carly, uh, we’ve got a mantra, um, at CopeGrand, and it’s not just for project management, it’s for everybody on our team that we do not walk past trash. Anybody that’s with CopeGrand does not walk past trash. And that’s something also that we’re working on trying to get the subs and the trades and the suppliers to also start saying and embody too, because we understand how, um, you know, how much can be hidden behind trash. Um, but also what the professionalism of the site looks like and also what type of site dynamic might encourage or will encourage the best type of working environment, not only for the project manager, but the client, the designers, uh, not to mention the trades and suppliers, and then the safety aspect. So yeah, we, that is, that is the one, Sam, I was, I was thinking about, about that.

Adam Copenhaver (20:31):

I was hoping you would say, “We don’t walk past trash.” No, it’s like – It might be the least glamorous part, but we don’t

Carly Ward (20:37):

Walk past. Yeah. Well, and it’s such a minor aspect, but like the trickle down effect from not doing it, I imagine, is much larger than a lot of builders realize.

Adam Copenhaver (20:47):

It is. And once you start noticing, you notice,

Carly Ward (20:49):

Right?

Adam Copenhaver (20:49):

Yeah. Um, I think our clients notice when they drive around town. I notice just even on our socials, as I look at other things and look at other content, I’m looking at the job sites and I’m saying, “Oh my gosh, look at all that trash in the background.” <laugh> Like, you know, they’re, they’re proud of all these other things, but then that’s the one thing that usually gets, uh, left behind.

Carly Ward (21:08):

You blew it with the soda in the grass. <laugh>

Adam Copenhaver (21:10):

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I’m not judging. I’m just, you know, it’s just a different level. It’s just a different level here at CopeGrand. Yeah.

Jordan Coolidge (21:16):

Well, I, I, I love that you take pride in, in the professionalism, you know, from a functional standpoint and just from the optics of, of what a job site looks and feels like, I, I think goes a long way. So I can say that about my messy desk, uh, back, back over, uh, in, in my world. So, um, Adam, you know, from, from your seat, what, what is a, a tell that, that you have as a project is going, um, well before any client communication? Like, what, what are some, some signs that kind of stand out to you that allow you to get a pulse on a, a project, uh, that, that might be going well wi- without the client just telling you directly, “This is going very well?”

Adam Copenhaver (22:02):

Um, I would say maybe a shameless plug here for, for, for Buildertrend, right? Um, we have been Buildertrend clients. Um, we have been Buildertrend users. We’ve been Buildertrend advocates for, for 10 years. Um, specifically Ben and I, uh, for our team. And then now our team is, as you see how many folks with CopeGrand have participated in Buildertrend things, whether it’s Buildertrend University, um, the podcast, you know, certainly at the International Builders Show. So I would say the one thing that allows me the easiest way without calling the client and say, “How are things going?” Um, is I can check the cadence of a project with the tools that we have in Buildertrend, um, which are the things that we live on. Sam mentioned the four tenets of what we do every single day on a job site. It starts with a schedule. It goes to the budget.

Adam Copenhaver (22:54):

It goes to the scope. It goes to selections, and then we’re doing client communication. So those things as we move through are covered on our weekly client update every single week. And so all of our clients get the same routine weekly client update with the progress of the project, and we’re covering those things. What do we do last week? What are we doing this week? What are we doing next week? The schedule. Um, how are we doing on the budget? Are there any selections coming up? Is there any changes in the project that might be worthwhile talking about upcoming change orders, so to speak? You asked for this, here’s the pricing for that, et cetera. And then once a month for our open book clients, we give a full rundown of the progress financially. Those happen every single week on a project. The more information, Jordan, the more organized, the level of detail that’s used in there, I can tell how well that project’s going.

Adam Copenhaver (23:44):

Going back to one of the earlier questions of, you know, what is it, what’s the grand experience? And, and one of the things I mentioned was certainty. Um, I can feel certain that a client is having a great experience if they’re being communicated well with. And the weekly client update is an incredible feature that we use. It,

Carly Ward (24:04):

It sounds like, um, from everything you said, you’re trying to provide every little bit of information that would be relevant for them instead of, “Hey, we were late on the tile or, you know, uh, the, uh, the framing’s gonna take an extra couple of days.” Like, it really does sound like they’re, you’re giving them all the answers to the test, good, bad, or anything in between.

Adam Copenhaver (24:26):

Well, you know, we work, our, our roles are to work between, you know, typical business hours, um, throughout the day. Um, but quite frankly, our clients are also doing the same in a lot of cases, you know, unless they’re retired or don’t work anymore, that sort of thing. And so we figured out that the timing of communication of when they’re ready to hear it, uh, or to go through that information, it’s not at the end of their workday. It’s probably not even at the end of our workday. So it needs to be documented in a location where they can absorb it on the time when they are best suited to absorb that information. That’s what’s nice about the weekly client update. They get an email saying it’s available. Great. They might still be laying in bed the next morning. They might be brushing their teeth.

Adam Copenhaver (25:11):

They might be anywhere in the world and still be in touch with their project without actually being on site, knowing what’s going on. In that weekly client update are the pictures of the progress too, every single week. So it’s another helpful thing. And have,

Carly Ward (25:25):

Have those client updates help, helped with kind of like the after hours, um, calls, texts, emails that you might traditionally get without that? Um, I think

Adam Copenhaver (25:34):

S – I think they have because I haven’t heard in a long time of, “Hey, Adam, Ben, could we have a conversation with the client about X, Y, Z?” I think Sam mentioned it earlier, “Hey, you know, phone calls, texts, email, I’m good with all of those.” Typically, we set boundaries on that and just say, “If there’s n – if there’s something that you really need, go ahead and let us know.” Um, or as I say, and I don’t encourage this for all of our project managers, our clients are welcome to text me any time of the day, even on the weekends. Just don’t be offended if I don’t get back to you right away. Um, I’m either with my family, I’m either with somebody just like you. I either need to be somewhere else. Um, but I will get back to that text message. I don’t want them to not text me because I don’t want them to forget what they’re thinking about.

Adam Copenhaver (26:24):

And so for me, that’s always been my mantra. I don’t share that with every, you know, I don’t advocate for everybody to share that. But I do believe, to answer your question, that the weekly client update, if you give it every single week routinely with consistent information, they rely, they get trained, our clients get trained on that’s where we go for this information. I do not need to text Sam, “What are we doing tomorrow?” He already told me in the weekly client update last week. And so I can just go there on my app, on my phone, “Oh, great. I got that piece of information and the 25 other things I was looking for.”

Carly Ward (27:00):

You’ve talked a lot about providing your clients a sense of calm, and, uh, I have to assume that these client updates and just the, the level of detail and, um, the level of intention that you guys take with your clients to keep them informed and updated and that, I’m sure that is a, a, a big, big part of that. Um, I am curious, uh, you know, what’s, for you, what’s the difference of being able to tell, like, okay, like, we, we have reached that level of calm with this client? Is it always, like, as obvious as we think it might be?

Adam Copenhaver (27:36):

Um, yeah, I’m trying to think about calm. I, I might rephrase that, if I phrased it as calm earlier, I might rephrase that in, back into my other concept of certainty. Um, I want them to feel certain. I want them to feel protected. I want them to feel looked after. Um, I want them to know that this professional organization is managing their investment with a process that has predictable and repeatable results. When, when they understand that, when they observe it, when they experience it, when they’re communicated with that, I think our clients reach a sense of certainty that everything’s taken care of. And when you reach that, you probably are calm, uh, which is good. But I think that place of certainty is where we do look forward to getting our clients too. Ben and I have been educators in, you know, as, as project managers also, we’ve always been educators, and we continue to push communication, uh, the whole way through our process, um, regular and repeatable.

Adam Copenhaver (28:44):

And when you get to this certain place, it’s the place where stress doesn’t exist. Um, and oftentimes we refer to stress in our organization as cancer. Um, it’s because it just eats away and it never stops. And so every time we see stress, Ben and, Ben and I as project managers early on in CopeGrand, we would just say, “What do we gotta do to remove that from that situation? What are we gonna remove, do to remove this from this experience?” And we continue to pull stress out of organization for Sam, for our project managers, for our coordinators, um, and that for our sub – suppliers vendors, and that all transfers and transposes into the client experience. And so the less stress this organization has, the better experience and less stress our clients are gonna have. And that really does come with a focus on getting them to certainty.

Carly Ward (29:32):

You talked, uh, talked about being, you and your brother being educators, um, and really making sure that you provide, you know, that support to, to your team. I’m curious, um, how have you and your brother kind of leaned on other builders throughout your career, um, to, you know, get to that point where you are able to provide, uh, sound advice to your team and outside?

Adam Copenhaver (29:56):

Um, you know, uh, this is, I’m just remembering back. Right now to another podcast that we had done or I’ve done a little snippet for somebody. And I, I really shared that I gave all the credit back to our peers. Um, after, after college, no matter what you go for, um, Ben went for a, uh, a four-year degree in, in just building houses, uh, construction management degree. Um, mine was a little bit different. I did engineering. Um, other folks are accounting, other folks are a business degree, other folks are psychology, whatever they might have chosen. But after that four year degree, for most professionals, you’re done getting a physical education. After that, you’re, you’re thrown to the wolves, you know, you’re trying to figure it out on your own. Potentially you have a mentor, potentially you have a peer to lean on. And what we realized at CopeGrand was we couldn’t do it alone, right?

Adam Copenhaver (30:57):

Um, we couldn’t possibly make the progress that we wanted to make on our own. We couldn’t possibly mitigate the risk and the mistakes we could potentially make with clients by doing it on our own. So we’ve always been immersing ourself in relationships with other builders, and most specifically the best builders around the country. And we’ll continue to do that. And, and that’s my encouragement to other builders that are listening to this. If you do not have a network of peers that you can call, trust, and rely on to learn from, man, do a fav – do yourself a favor, do your family a favor, do your clients a favor, and go ahead and immerse yourself in with organizations and other people that wanna, that you can pour into and they can pour back into you.

Carly Ward (31:42):

Well, I’m gonna do a shameless plug of my own. <laugh> Go for it. Um, I, I, so we have, uh, Buildertrend has been doing a lot of BuilderBond events, um, with our existing customers, prospects, and really just, uh, you know, builders within the industry, um, an opportunity to connect, learn from others. Um, we do have a really unique opportunity coming up in Scottsdale in December. Um, that will be on December 3rd. It’s a one-day event. Um, and it’s similar to, uh, events that we’ve done in the past, like in Nashville, but this one will be a, a little unique where, um, it’s actually going to involve a tour at Brad Levitt’s house, um, with AFT Construction. So, um, it, we’ll go around in groups, get tours, kind of, uh, a really fun workshop experience and then followed by, um, a happy hour and a chance to connect with other amazing builders across the industry.

Carly Ward (32:34):

So, um, definitely worth checking out. I’m curious, Adam, have you been to a Builder Bond yet?

Adam Copenhaver (32:40):

I am actually trying to come to the BuilderBond, uh, in, in September. Um, I specifically wanna see Brad’s house. <laugh> Um, and so I also, you know, I think a lot of us, um, look up to Brad for the things that he’s been able to accomplish in the industry. Uh, Brad continues to be a leader. He continues to be an advocate for builders. He continues to be an advocate for running a professional organization through all the things that he does, um, through the Curious Builder Organization, through the Contractor Coalition Summit. I understand he’s also an ambassador for Buildertrend. So you look at individuals like that and, and then you also see them pouring back into the builder community by inviting them to his house. That’s a special thing and I wanna be a part of it for sure. Okay.

Carly Ward (33:23):

All right. No, I love that. It, it should be a, an amazing time, and especially, you know, Scottsdale in, uh, December. Uh, nothing, nothing wrong with that. <laugh>

Jordan Coolidge (33:31):

You know, I, I’m, I’m glad Brad has been able to be so successful. I actually was Brad’s Buildertrend coach nine years ago when I started at Buildertrend, and they found success despite me helping lead the way

Carly Ward (33:44):

Through the, you were the secret. Yeah. You were the foundation.

Jordan Coolidge (33:48):

I don’t know. I think I maybe pointed them in the, in the right direction as far as, like, these are maybe the things we don’t need to focus on. So, you know, yeah. I was brand new back at the time, so. <laugh>

Adam Copenhaver (33:58):

Yeah. Well, great.

Carly Ward (34:00):

Oh, incredible. Um, you know, kind of closing things out today, um, I’m curious both from Adam and Sam, if there was one thing that you could suggest for our builders to take away to level up and elevate their existing customer experience, what would that be?

Sam Wilson (34:21):

I would say, um, really work on developing your process, but also documenting and writing it down. Um, if you can’t, if you don’t have it written, uh, and it’s not, you know, sort of laid out for you, then it’s gonna be hard to bring people into your ecosystem and have them adapt. Um, but if you have everything organized, written out and documented, you know, that, that knowledge that you’ve worked so hard to gain is now transferable.

Carly Ward (34:47):

And Adam, I’m curious, uh, from your perspective.

Adam Copenhaver (34:50):

That knowledge that you worked so hard to gain is transferable. I mean, Sam, that was, that was beautiful because I think that that’s the investment, right? That’s the investment that pays dividends. That’s a predictable and repeatable result that just gives back without you having to give more to it. That’s an investment. Um, I think that I, I would echo that. Um, the one thing is you’ve gotta build the process and the systems, um, around your organization. And, and luckily, I mean, here we are in the Buildertrend call, but, um, Buildertrend has given us so many tools to operate better as a business.

Adam Copenhaver (35:33):

They’ve given us this most beautiful estimating tool with templates. They’ve given us a robust job costing budget to track expenses, selections, um, invoicing, reporting, no matter what contract that you run, stipulated sum, fixed price, cost plus. They’ve given a homeowner portal. I mean, they’ve given us all the tools to really level up at being a better business owner and developing better teams. I’d say lean in. Lean into the resources that you’ve been given, read the manual on Buildertrend, get in there and do it. Create your own culture of systems and procedures unique to your business and continue to pull the stress out of those experiences every time that you feel it. And that will transcend to the experience that your clients have. And I would say, I would say that, um, that process is a system of checklists for sure. Um, it’s the same checklist that, um, doctors go through before an operating room.

Adam Copenhaver (36:42):

It’s the same checklist before pilots take off, uh, in a plane with, that’s filled with passengers. Um, it’s the same principles that give the best results. And so I’d focus on developing those for your company and sticking to them and refining them often. And, um, and you’ll be surprised. I think you’ll be surprised, as I was, of the investment that each one of those initiatives are.

Jordan Coolidge (37:07):

Do you feel like you, you were able to realize that investment, like, speaking specifically to, like, the Buildertrend side, right? It’s a very big software. There’s lots of resources potentially to be used. When you, when you think back to, to first kind of crescendoing into utilizing those resources, was that immediate upon having availability to those resources or, or was that something that, that kind of evolved with your, with your business?

Adam Copenhaver (37:31):

No, you gotta make the deposits. <laugh> You gotta make the deposits. There’s no, I don’t know, the, there’s, you know, there’s no, there’s no quick buck. There’s no lottery when it comes to that. Yeah. You know, um, but, um, you make the deposits every single day, um, into developing each one of those areas for your business. Um, and then after a while, you’re like, “Holy smokes, this is, this is easy.” Um, this just got much more simpler. And when things get simple, you get to spend time, more time on what matters the most, right? You gotta get in there and you gotta make the deposits to make the investment, but you, once you get that investment working for you, you get to spend more time on what matters the most. Ben and I have got more time and more resources to spend on the team.

Adam Copenhaver (38:20):

We’ve got more time and more resources to spend with clients. And so I think that getting over that critical mass of, of the operational, um, engine, right, um, you find out that you really do have the opportunity to be there with the things that matter the most in an organization. And I just named it, it’s the team and the clients.

Adam Copenhaver (38:44):

There’s no easy button though. Buildertrend did make it easier by providing the framework, but you still gotta put in the time and you still gotta train on it and you still gotta make sure that everybody’s following the checklist.

Carly Ward (38:55):

Well, I so appreciate you for digging, letting us dig into, you know, behind CopeGrand’s, uh, uh, you know, kind of behind the scenes. Um, I really appreciate ev – all the insight today and, uh, real, really excited to hopefully see you in, uh, Scottsdale in December. Um, but until next time, you know, we’ll look forward to chatting with you again and, and seeing you at the next Builder Bond.

Adam Copenhaver (39:23):

Great. Hey, we enjoyed it. Jordan, any, any more tough questions like the, uh, would you rather?

Jordan Coolidge (39:28):

You know, I’ll, I’ll probably doctor some up for just when we can talk in person next time. So I’ll, I’ll, I’ll come up with some heavier hitters for just a, a, a one-on-one scenario when I, when I meet you in person for the first time. How’s that sound?

Adam Copenhaver (39:41):

Fantastic.

Jordan Coolidge (39:42):

Yeah, sounds good. I

Carly Ward (39:42):

Like that. I, I got one.

Jordan Coolidge (39:44):

Ooh, here we go, Carly. He came.

Carly Ward (39:46):

Uh, would you rather the legacy budget or the job costing budget? Oh, yeah. I think I know the answer. <laugh>

Sam Wilson (39:56):

Job costing all day.

Adam Copenhaver (39:59):

Yep. <laugh> Job costing.

Jordan Coolidge (40:02):

Mm-hmm. Good answer.

Carly Ward (40:04):

Um, and, uh, just another one. If you had to, if you had to pick a, a shameless Buildertrend, uh, you know, plug for what, your favorite feature, what, what would it be?

Adam Copenhaver (40:17):

All right, Sam, you go.

Sam Wilson (40:19):

The estimator in me wants to say bid packages. <laugh> I really like those. They really helped streamline our, our process and it’s really easy to track, uh, all the bids that I have sent out. And they’re easy to reference for our PMs in the field. Uh, so I really, I really enjoy them. And we’ve, we’ve really, in the past couple months, started utilizing them as, as heavily in our process as we can.

Jordan Coolidge (40:40):

Have, have your subs and vendors, like, enjoy that? Has it been positive feedback from them as well in, in getting, you know, getting those numbers through Buildertrend?

Sam Wilson (40:50):

Yeah. I mean, you gotta, you gotta train a couple of them, but that’s normal. Uh, but, but they do enjoy it that they can get all the information in one, one document, submit their numbers through it, and, and then I do the rest.

Jordan Coolidge (41:03):

That’s amazing. I love it. How about you, Adam?

Adam Copenhaver (41:06):

Hmm. Um, I’m, I’m, I don’t, I’m, I’m so big on communication. So I think that, um, the estimator side of me wants to say the estimate, um, and the bid packages, but I’ll say that the, the customer service side of, of me and organization says the weekly client updates. Um, it is the one thing that can, it’s a gift that keeps on giving. Um, it’s the best communication tool that we utilize today to make sure that we’re communicating the progress of projects. Um, and so that’s my, that’s my favorite feature.

Carly Ward (41:49):

Love it. Well, appreciate hearing from you guys and, uh, we will talk soon.

Jordan Coolidge (41:57):

Great.

Adam Copenhaver (41:58):

Thanks so much.

Jordan Coolidge (41:58):

Thank you both so much.

Carly Ward (42:00):

Thank you. And I’ll stop recording. I appreciate it, guys. That was awesome.