Breaking glass ceilings: The power of representation in construction

Charley Burtwistle (00:05):

What is up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of “The Building Code.” I’m Charles Burtwistle.

Courtney Mattern (00:11):

I’m Courtney Mattern.

Charley Burtwistle (00:12):

What do you think of that?

Courtney Mattern (00:12):

Are you going by Charles now-

Charley Burtwistle (00:14):

Yeah, 2025, new year, new me. This is going to be the year of Charles, I think.

Courtney Mattern (00:17):

Charles, that’s going to stick. We’re going to have to make new stickers with …

Charley Burtwistle (00:21):

Yeah, absolutely.

Courtney Mattern (00:22):

… and everything.

Charley Burtwistle (00:22):

I’ve been waiting three weeks to make that joke on the podcast recording here. I’m like, “I can’t wait until we get back. I’m going to introduce myself as Charles.”

Courtney Mattern (00:30):

Man, you couldn’t wait to get past Christmas, and New Year’s, and all the fun just to come back and …

Charley Burtwistle (00:34):

To the podcast.

Courtney Mattern (00:35):

Yeah.

Charley Burtwistle (00:36):

Yeah. With that being said, Courtney and I are back in the podcast studio for the first time in probably three weeks.

Courtney Mattern (00:40):

Yeah, it feels weird.

Charley Burtwistle (00:41):

It does feel weird, but it also feels like home. It feels like we’re back where we belong.

Courtney Mattern (00:45):

It smells like cookies, not really …

Charley Burtwistle (00:49):

How was your break, Courtney?

Courtney Mattern (00:50):

My break was great. I took a trip to San Diego, spent time with family, got some sunshine, made a mood board …

Charley Burtwistle (01:00):

Love that.

Courtney Mattern (01:00):

… which is really out of character for me, but …

Charley Burtwistle (01:01):

Really? Because I feel like that’s pretty on brand for you.

Courtney Mattern (01:03):

You would think so, but, yeah, it was my first time making a collage.

Charley Burtwistle (01:07):

Love that. Well, the good news is we both had fantastic breaks. We were back ready to podcast our A off, and we are not wasting any time with fantastic guests. Who do we have today, Courtney?

Courtney Mattern (01:18):

Today, we have Tammie Ross. She’s the chief executive officer and general contractor Residence by Ross. She owns her business down in Memphis, Tennessee doing home building, but she also is releasing a book this month … Well, in February, on my birthday actually …

Charley Burtwistle (01:34):

Wow. Did you plan that?

Courtney Mattern (01:35):

Yeah, we did. It was a birthday gift to me. No, just a happy coincidence. But it’s called “Breaking Ground, Breaking Glass Ceilings,” and she shares about her journey of overcoming barriers to joining the male-dominated industry of construction, not just as a woman, but also as Black woman. And those experiences are underrepresented, and those stories aren’t told enough. And, yeah, we’re happy to have Tammie on and highlight her book before it comes out.

Charley Burtwistle (02:05):

Yeah, absolutely. Well, without further ado, let’s get Tammie in here. Hey, Tammie, welcome to “The Building Code.” Really appreciate you making the time to join us today. We are super excited to have you. How are you doing?

Tammie Ross (02:17):

I’m doing great. Thank you so much for having me as your guest.

Charley Burtwistle (02:19):

Oh, absolutely. Courtney and I, we’re very much looking forward to this interview. We were talking about you and your book and everything in between before this, but for those people that do not know you, we always like to just kick off these interviews with, tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, where you came from and how you got to where you’re at today.

Tammie Ross (02:36):

Awesome. Well, hi, everyone. I am the CEO and general contractor of Residence by Ross. So, my journey into the construction industry, to be honest with you guys, was quite unconventional. I spent over 20 years in the financial sector specializing in automotive financing, but my passion for real estate and helping others achieve their dream homes, that led me into this field. So, here I am. I became a licensed general contractor and entered into this male-dominated industry hoping to help others along the way.

Courtney Mattern (03:07):

Yeah, we brought you on in the new year to talk a little bit about your book, “Breaking Ground, Breaking Glass Ceilings,” and it’s a guide for women navigating industries where they’re underrepresented. I was just looking up some statistics about the construction industry specifically and found out only 11% of the workforce in construction is women. With that in mind, you’ve managed to break through a lot of barriers and build your successful company. What were some of the biggest challenges you faced in your career and how’d you manage to navigate that?

Tammie Ross (03:38):

That’s a great question. So, I was motivated to write “Breaking Ground, Breaking Glass Ceilings” because of my own experience as a minority woman in the construction industry. And as you mentioned, it is 11% of women in the industry, but it even gets smaller when it comes to Black individuals. It’s only 6.7%. So, the challenges and obstacles I faced have been quite significant, not just because of that intersectionality, but for several other reasons. But through perseverance and resilience, I’ve also experienced incredible growth and success. So, entering into this career really enriched my life. But I was thinking about when I was a girl, when I was starting to write this book, I had never seen a Black builder nor had I ever seen a female builder, and I didn’t see that until I was in my 30s when I was trying to build my first home. So, these experiences really highlighted the need for more representation and inspired me to be a role model for others.

Courtney Mattern (04:38):

Can you share a little bit about your first experience seeing a woman in the industry and what that meant to you?

Tammie Ross (04:45):

It was just transformative. When I saw her, I was just enamored. Her work was stellar, and she was so creative. She thought of things that was out of the box. So, that was very inspirational to me, and it also helped me to have a mind shift in that moment and seeing her a growth mindset like, “I could do this myself.” So, it just really encouraged me to pursue this path on my own.

Charley Burtwistle (05:11):

I love that. I’d love to know just a little bit more about your journey because you mentioned you’re in the finance sector, and then you wanted to get into home building, your love of real estate, but now you’re doing corporate speaking, and consulting, and an author of a book. You make that first career, made your career move, and then just continued, you mentioned the growth mindset, you seem like someone that always liked to keep yourself busy, what were those stepping stones like and how do you just continue to evolve as a person, as a leader and as an entrepreneur?

Tammie Ross (05:42):

That’s a great question. I think that not only with the growth mindset, but also having emotional intelligence. Thinking about my community, not just for myself being community-centric in all of the things that I do. Also navigating imposter syndrome was a big part of that, knowing and believing that I could. I have to be great just to have a seat at the table. So, fostering that sense of confidence. And then as I go through the evolutionary process, prioritizing my mental and physical health, it was very important to me. And wanting to make sure that when I came to whatever space I was entering into that I had a great foundation, including making sure that I had the educational credentials and things along those lines to foster the confidence to move and make changes throughout my career and also throughout my life.

Courtney Mattern (06:31):

What were some of the early successes you had with Residence by Ross?

Tammie Ross (06:36):

So, it has been so nice. One of the things that … As you mentioned before, I like to go out and speak and be there with children and girls. And one of the things that was so interesting to me, I went to an elementary school, and it was an inner city … Memphis, to be very specific. And this little girl looked at me and was like, “How is it that you’re building houses with long red nails?” And I was like, “Oh … It was so funny to me that she said that and that, “Can I build houses, too?”

(07:06):

And just the sense of awe that came about with her knowing that not only was I a general contractor, but I owned the company and that we were building houses. And she pulled me to the side and said, “Can you help my parents get a house and build it for me? Can you build us a room?” And I was just so taken aback by that little girl. It just really inspired me to want to continue down this process because those small wins like that … Quite naturally, building houses, scaling our business are great wins for us as a company, but those small wins and seeing the light and inspiring others was very, very rewarding for me.

Charley Burtwistle (07:52):

Oh, yeah. I’m sure that in that moment, it’s like anytime that you set your mind to something and set a goal, but actually to see it come to fruition front and center directly to you had to be a pretty awe-inspiring moment for sure. And you’d mentioned previously that you had had some of those moments yourself with other leaders that you look up to and women in the space. I’m curious, were there some specific role models that you had that continued to shape your journey as well?

Tammie Ross (08:20):

Yes. My mother, to start, she taught me a lot about resilience, and hard work, and how it pays off, and to be your authentic self in whatever space that you’re in. So, that early learnings was something very important to me. I also really admire Oprah Winfrey. Her leadership and vision just transformed her industry. She, too, was in a male-dominated industry. And so, seeing that authentic leadership style, having empathy, unwavering determination, all of those things have been great examples for me.

Courtney Mattern (08:55):

I think the topic of whether it’s breaking the glass ceiling or having more women represented in a different field, a lot of people might say, “Well, the job is just hard. Construction is just hard,” but can you explain the importance for you and writing your book of documenting these unique experiences of being a woman in the field to say, “No, this is different. This isn’t just a part of the job. This is part of our lived experience”?

Tammie Ross (09:25):

Exactly. I think that it’s very important to find a sense of purpose and go relentlessly, fearlessly for those dreams and to be determined to succeed in whatever space you determine to be in. And I think that just by having your own blueprint for success and setting strategies that helps you to be successful and not giving up. Because if you just get started, even if the situation is not perfect, just get going. Because if you do the actions, you put in the work, it’s going to yield positive results.

Courtney Mattern (10:05):

Yeah, I like to say you got to make it exist first before you can make it perfect. And like you said, you hadn’t seen another woman in the industry until you were in your 30s, and so, you just needed that role model to exist.

Tammie Ross (10:18):

Yes. Exactly.

Charley Burtwistle (10:19):

Well, Courtney, you had a pretty cool stat, too. Courtney was very excited about her stats before this interview here, so I want to make sure she gets the chance to share them all, about the number of mentors that people have in the space. And, obviously, when you’re trying to do something for the first time and break these glass ceilings, having a mentor and mentoring other people can help guide that path and lead that path. And it’s something that you talk … I was looking at your website before this, you talk a lot about mentorship on there. So, Courtney, what was your stat before I asked my question?

Courtney Mattern (10:48):

Yeah, it was from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. I even got real sources.

Charley Burtwistle (10:51):

Yeah.

Courtney Mattern (10:51):

I did a lot of research …

Charley Burtwistle (10:52):

See what I mean? She’s very excited about these stats.

Courtney Mattern (10:54):

40% of women in the construction industry report having mentorship opportunities, which means 60% don’t have a mentor. And I know, as a woman in tech, I always say you need an example or a mentor to model your behavior after because sometimes the way I would behave would be different than a man would behave in certain situations. So, yeah, tell us about your mentorships that you’ve had or how you pay it forward.

Tammie Ross (11:26):

Yeah, so, mentorship has really played a crucial role in my success. It’s helped to guide me, support me and provide invaluable insights. And my mentors have really helped me navigate challenges and make informed decisions and grow as a leader. And I will say that I try to find mentors from anywhere that I can. So, if it’s someone that’s doing well in my region or is doing well across the nation, be it female or male, I like to reach out to them and ask them to help me to become a success and if they would mind looking at my process, poke holes through it, tell me some things that would be advantageous for me to follow. And in turn, I’ve committed myself to mentoring others, particularly women in the industry since there is such a lack of it. So, I provide mentorship through one-on-one coaching, networking opportunities. I’ve been invited to come to meetings at different corporations and share my experiences and knowledge because my goal is to empower other women to really achieve their full potential and succeed in their careers.

Charley Burtwistle (12:34):

I love that. I feel like that’s something that more and more and more Courtney and I have hosted this podcast for a couple of years now, we’re hearing that more frequently in our interviews of the importance of community and the importance of just reaching out to people that you admire. Even if it’s something as simple as an Instagram DM of like, “Hey, I saw you doing this,” and fostering that connectivity. I think that’s something that, honestly, construction was lagging in in a long time and now I see leading the charge with a lot of the different networking groups, and coalitions, and conferences that are popping up, and people like you leading from the front of always being available as a resource as well, too. It’s something that’s been really, really cool to see.

Courtney Mattern (13:07):

How would you advise someone to reach out to a mentor? Do you stalk them on LinkedIn? Do you find them on Instagram? As someone who’s more of an extroverted introvert, I always find it awkward to just be like, “Hey, I think you’re awesome,” but is that the approach to take?

Tammie Ross (13:22):

I think so. That’s a very authentic approach, Courtney, just, “I think that you’re awesome. I’d love to glean from your experiences. Would you be willing to mentor me?” Just as simple as that. And I think that a person would be very willing to do that. It’s hard to tell someone, “No, I’m not going to help you.” I just can’t see doing that. And as Charley mentioned, our community in the construction industry, it’s becoming more open. It’s becoming more receptive to individuals coming into it. So, I just think that we just have to get ourselves out there, and it’s a very humble approach, and humility always wins in spaces like that.

Courtney Mattern (14:00):

Yeah, and thank goodness for online communities because it makes it pretty easy to show up in someone’s DMs or their LinkedIn messages. But like Charley just mentioned, there’s a lot of meetings in person. I know we sponsor the Professional Women and Builders Council at the NAHB, and they do these monthly shop talks for women in the industry where you can hop on a webinar, and they’re more of a conversation than a presentation. And I know women are meeting each other that way because I think when you only have … What is it? 11% women in the construction workforce, that’s not that many. And the other stat … Because I’m so proud of all my stats, was …

Charley Burtwistle (14:40):

Here we go.

Courtney Mattern (14:40):

… only 2.5% of construction firms are women-owned. So, not only is the pool small for women in the industry, but women running a business and running construction business is even more rare. Your book tackles some of the obstacles that women face in these male-dominated industries. What do you think is the most pressing obstacle or tallest hurdle in 2025?

Tammie Ross (15:08):

That’s a very good question. I oftentimes think that the biggest obstacle is what we think of ourselves. Earlier, I mentioned about the imposter syndrome. The first thing is knowing and believing in yourself and in your abilities. And if you lack in a certain skill set, there’s so much available if you’re willing to educate yourself and upskill. So, I think that the biggest obstacle is what we tell ourselves in our minds. And once we get past that, I really believe that we can do anything that comes our way in 2025 and the years to come.

Charley Burtwistle (15:42):

I love that answer. I’m a pretty big believer of everyone has imposter syndrome. The people that you look up to, and the people they look up to, they have imposter syndrome, too. And, I mean, correct me if you guys disagree, but I’ve always viewed it as a good thing because that means that you are pushing yourself into an area that you’re uncomfortable in and can grow into. And I’ve always been a proponent of if you don’t have imposter syndrome, then that means you’re selling yourself short, and you’re stuck in a field or a career or a position inside that field that you’re potentially overqualified for. I don’t know, it’d be better to be underqualified and shoot for that next step and bet on yourself than to get stagnant.

Courtney Mattern (16:20):

Well, I love that sentiment, too, because you’re accountable then. If the biggest hurdle and the biggest obstacle is yourself and your mindset, look at that, that’s something you can control. So, that’s the silver lining of that being the biggest obstacle. How do you overcome imposter syndrome?

Tammie Ross (16:39):

I continuously upskill, and I don’t ever think that I know it all. I feel as if there’s something that can be learned, and I always follow these great builders and also the ones that’s brand new. A person that’s brand new in the industry, they’re new, they’re looking at things through a different lens. They’re okay to get out there and make mistakes. And so, I just feel as if you can learn so much from anyone. And that’s one of the things that I’ve been taught since I was a child, to look for mentors in just … In the janitor that’s cleaning the building. There’s so much that can be learned from individuals. So, I don’t ever want to be stagnant. I think that once you become ripe, you’re done. So, I want to remain green and continue to grow.

Charley Burtwistle (17:25):

Wow. I love that analogy. That maybe T-shirt idea in 2025, “Once you become ripe, you’re done. Stay green.”

Courtney Mattern (17:32):

Cool. Yeah, you need to get T-shirts made.

Charley Burtwistle (17:35):

Yeah, I love it. And, again, I was just going through your website as you were talking there because you have a ton of opportunities out there for people that are looking to upskill and take that next step and learn from other people. Could you speak to some of the things that you specifically are doing if people are interested?

Tammie Ross (17:49):

Yeah, so the National Association of Home Builders, in fact, they’re the ones that’s publishing my book, they have so many things out there for individuals to learn, be a part of those classes. The International Builders’ Show, I’m so excited about that. They’ve released all of the classes that they’re going to have and the keynote speakers, and I just can’t wait to learn and glean from those individuals. But throughout the year, the National Association also works with individual home builders’ associations that always offer skills and classes. So, I think it’s important to take advantage of those resources that are underutilized.

Charley Burtwistle (18:26):

Absolutely. And you’re going to be at the Builders’ Show this year?

Tammie Ross (18:29):

Oh, yes, absolutely.

Courtney Mattern (18:30):

Woo-hoo, we’ll both be there. So, we hope you’ll stop by at the Buildertrend booth and hang out.

Tammie Ross (18:35):

I definitely will. Thank you.

Charley Burtwistle (18:37):

Yeah, it’s rare they let me get to go to that. They teased me a couple years ago, then they held me back the last couple of years, but I will be back in …

Tammie Ross (18:37):

Oh, no.

Charley Burtwistle (18:44):

… Vegas this year. I know exactly, Tammie. “Oh, no,” is the exact response.

Courtney Mattern (18:48):

It’s a running joke that we don’t let Charley out of the building.

Tammie Ross (18:52):

How can you not? He’s interviewing all these builders.

Courtney Mattern (18:54):

I know.

Charley Burtwistle (18:54):

Exactly. You’re making my point for me, Tammie.

Courtney Mattern (18:57):

Now he gets to hit the road. Well, while you’re at the Builders’ Show, do you have any tips for people as they prepare? This will air in a couple weeks, so you’ll have a month and a half to prepare for going to Vegas. If somebody sets out, especially a woman in the industry, or maybe a woman who wants to run her own business, and she has top three things she’s got to do with the International Builders’ Show, what would they be on your list?

Tammie Ross (19:24):

Wow, great question. I would first go to the Professional Women in Building booth and sign up there. The national chapter will be there. And just get out there, introduce yourself to other members of the other associations and seeing how you can glean from there. And then I would also attend a lot of the classes. I know that I’ll be speaking at a couple of those classes, so I would love for your viewers to come to some of mine. You can find it on the schedule. And then just have fun. Go out there and go around the booths, exchange business cards, bring a lot of those and get to know individuals and new vendors. So, I think this is going to be a great experience. Just be open to it.

Courtney Mattern (20:07):

I am pro physical business cards as well.

Tammie Ross (20:11):

Me too.

Courtney Mattern (20:12):

Especially when you go to a show like that, that’s like they serve as little sticky notes to like, “Call this person. Here’s a to-do list when I get back.” I always stick them in my pocket, and then I send off all my emails afterward. I love going to the International Builders’ Show because it’s like being in tech. It’s the one time of the year we get to see our customers in person. And sometimes when we get to meet people like you or some of our customers, it’s like we’re meeting celebrities for the first time.

Charley Burtwistle (20:39):

Oh, 100%. I’m starstruck constantly out there.

Courtney Mattern (20:41):

Yeah.

Charley Burtwistle (20:42):

Well, before we wrap up here, obviously, new book coming out, not released yet though, is that correct?

Tammie Ross (20:52):

It’s going to be released on February the 3rd. It’s available now on Amazon and Barnes & Noble and other bookstores, and it’s going to be released at the International Builders’ Show. So be sure to stop by, there’ll be raffles and everything. So, I’m excited to see you there.

Charley Burtwistle (21:07):

Love that. We’ll make sure to link the link for the book in the show notes here. And, again, if people are coming out to the International Builders’ Show, you will be there, get a little autograph, book signing or something like that. Right?

Tammie Ross (21:21):

Absolutely.

Charley Burtwistle (21:22):

Love that. I think that’s it. You got anything, Courtney?

Courtney Mattern (21:25):

Nope. I think that I’ve got everything. I think a good place to end would just be, do you have a mantra going into the new year? Because I want to stick to … It’s January. Is it new year, new you? Do you have a big goal for the new year? Yeah. What do you got your sights set on?

Tammie Ross (21:44):

I would say two things. Step into your power and be unstoppable.

Charley Burtwistle (21:50):

Love that. Heck, yeah. That’s such great … Courtney and I have to go back to our normal jobs after this.

Courtney Mattern (21:55):

Yes.

Charley Burtwistle (21:56):

So, thanks for firing me up as we go back to our desk and change the way the world builds here. Tammie, thank you so much for your time today. It was awesome to meet you and awesome to talk to you. Inspiring. I will definitely be ordering the book, and I will see you at the International Builders’ Show.

Tammie Ross (22:11):

Yay. Thank you all so much and have a great day. I enjoy being with you.

Charley Burtwistle (22:11):

Absolutely.

Courtney Mattern (22:11):

Absolutely. Thank you, Tammie.

Charley Burtwistle (22:16):

Thank you, Tammie. Well, Courtney, we just heard from Tammie Ross. What’d you think?

Courtney Mattern (22:22):

I thought that she gave a lot of really good advice, advice that I specifically needed to hear. But I can imagine a lot of business owners heading into the new year, especially women, women who might be setting out to start their own business needed to hear, which is just go out, get started, find a mentor, ask nicely, and go. Do it. Do the thing.

Charley Burtwistle (22:45):

Yeah. The point that she made about the imposter syndrome and just taking the next step really resonated with me. And I love that where her mindset is at and her attitude is at of exactly what you just said, is it is hard. It’s going to be really hard, especially if you’re a minority woman in a male-dominated field. But regardless of what you’re doing, the whole point is hard and nothing great ever comes without it being really, really hard. So, I thought it was motivational. I’m super excited to see her in Vegas at IBS and pick her brain a bit more, but awesome guest, and hopefully our listeners learned a lot.

Courtney Mattern (23:18):

Yeah, I feel like this is a great episode leading into the International Builders’ Show. It’s happening at the end of February in Las Vegas. She mentioned the Professional Women Builders Council, which is part of the NAHB. Buildertrend, we’re a proud sponsor of the group, and I’ll actually be doing a roundtable with them while we’re there about women in entrepreneurship with some different builders, Danielle Gutelli, Ashley Kuhn from Blair Freeman here in Omaha, and Gloria from GloJoy Construction out in New York. And it just ties right into what Tammie was saying, where this industry has a huge labor shortage, and we need to pull from all corners of our population to find skills and talent. So, I love that that group is going to be there in Vegas. It’s a great networking opportunity specifically for women. And then there’s all the fun of Las Vegas and the rest of the Builders’ Show.

Charley Burtwistle (24:13):

Of course.

Courtney Mattern (24:14):

Like live podcast recordings that we’ll be doing. So, I’ll make sure that Chelsea gets that into the show notes, there’s a lot going on, and we’re five, six weeks out, and I know people are going to be planning. So, watch for that link so that you can make your plan for Las Vegas.

Charley Burtwistle (24:30):

Absolutely.

Courtney Mattern (24:31):

You plan to see Charles and get his autograph.

Charley Burtwistle (24:34):

No, no, no, no. But, yeah, a ton of good stuff going on at IBS. And, yeah, failing to plan is planning to fail. Right? So, detail it out. Go see Tammie. Go see Courtney. Go see everybody.

Courtney Mattern (24:46):

Go see all of us.

Charley Burtwistle (24:48):

Otherwise, until next time, we’ll see you on YouTube if you’re watching.

Courtney Mattern (24:53):

Yeah, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram …

Charley Burtwistle (24:55):

Instagram. Yeah.

Courtney Mattern (24:56):

We’re everywhere now.

Charley Burtwistle (24:57):

2025 is the year of … What is it? Social media for us?

Courtney Mattern (25:01):

Yes. And rate, review and subscribe, please.

Charley Burtwistle (25:03):

Love it. Okay. I think that’s it for us. I’m Charles Burtwistle.

Courtney Mattern (25:06):

And I’m Courtney …

Charley Burtwistle (25:07):

I’m just kidding. I’m sticking with Charley. Next time. Peace.