Nailing your brand: How to win with marketing

Zach Wojtowicz:

Hey, everybody. Welcome to “The Building Code.”

Charley Burtwistle:

I’m Charley Burtwistle.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Messed him up by not throwing it to him.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Got him.

Charley Burtwistle:

No kidding.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I’m Zach Wojtowicz.

Charley Burtwistle:

We’re back. We are back at the studio with another …

Zach Wojtowicz:

Some say we never leave.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. If you do watch these on YouTube, you may notice that Zach and I are wearing the same clothes as last time.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Well, I always try to be consistent because I kind of have my uniform.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, yeah. Well, I knew Courtney wasn’t going to be in today, our podcast boss. I didn’t wear the official polo I wore.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Which is hilarious that we’re talking about this because today, we’re talking about brand.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Part of the brand is to have consistent experiences.

Charley Burtwistle:

Gosh, great segue, Zach. Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Pretty good. Been doing this for a while.

Charley Burtwistle:

We have. Buildertrend has rebranded twice since I’ve been here.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Is that it?

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Well, I guess there was a third.

Charley Burtwistle:

No, Cloudy to the first BT to the new BT.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yep.

Charley Burtwistle:

It’s something that I had never really thought about. I think a lot of newer companies don’t really think about, about just how big of an impact a brand does have on their company. So, to talk about it more, we brought in a couple experts. Zach, who do we got today?

Zach Wojtowicz:

Well, yeah. I love learning about this stuff. I find when I talk to experts on this, in another life, this is something I wish I would’ve known about going to a career.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I think it’s a really cool …

Charley Burtwistle:

100%.

Zach Wojtowicz:

… Industry. Yeah, we have Lenker to hear, they’re a brand and consulting company that really kind of go and look at your brand in the marketplace. We have John Lenker, founder and chief vision officer and Assaf Arie, who’s partner and their CEO, to talk a little bit about what they do, and also just the importance of branding and the power of it. You and I …

Charley Burtwistle:

Specifically in the construction industry too.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. They focus on construction vertical. It’s very important to them. We’re going to get them in here to talk about it. Charley and I are not experts as we all know.

Charley Burtwistle:

In anything. Yeah, we’re not experts.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Well, let’s not discredit ourselves that much.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

You’re fantastic at rocking that sweater.

Charley Burtwistle:

Thank you.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Repping the brand. All right, let’s get them in here. Hey, John and Assaf, welcome to “The Building Code.” It’s great to have you here. It’s a topic that I’m pumped to talk about, marketing, brand consulting. You’re first timers here on “The Building Code.” Do me a favor and introduce yourself. John, you go first.

John Lenker:

I’m John Lenker, I’m the founder of Lenker. We’re a growth consulting and marketing services-focused firm. The construction industry is an important vertical for us. I’m excited to talk to you guys and see where this discussion goes today.

Assaf Arie:

Okay. Assaf Arie, I was born and raised in Israel, moved to the U.S. 11 years ago, joined a concrete company as a CFO and a partner, and had a lot of experience firsthand. I actually hired Lenker as our marketing agency that helped us rebrand the business and all the marketing strategies. Later, 2020, John poached me, and I joined Lenker as a CEO and partner.

Charley Burtwistle:

Gosh, that’s very interesting. Obviously, Buildertrend, very, very construction focused. I’m interested to hear, you both mentioned the construction. John, you said it was an important vertical. Was that always the plan, or did you start the brand, consulting company, and then realize that you could move into this vertical? How did that come about?

John Lenker:

Well, things just kind of flowed out of the relationship with Assaf, to be honest. Concrete was the entry point, but it quickly expanded. When you are in a market, everybody knows each other, and you get a lot of referrals. We did, and we ended up just getting a lot of projects in the construction industry. Over time, Assaf and I got to know each other pretty well, and we were both committed to very similar things in terms of the integrity and quality, what we’re doing.

Lenker has always had this really big focus on bringing true ethics to marketing, meaning that we want to educate the market for our clients regarding things that are true about themselves. We want to know the truth about our clients. If some of those things are not maybe in the best shape, we want to work together to improve them, so we can go tell a true story, that when people learn the truth, they are going to fall in love with you, they’re going to want to work with your company.

Your brand reputation grows based on people’s realization that you stand out. One of the ways you stand out is the things that you say about yourself and the things you represent are the things that you actually deliver. Assaf and I both had a very similar focus on that, and I think it’s part of what led to us developing a relationship just outside of the client engagement.

Eventually I knew, hey, we need somebody running the show here that can help us grow and can help us bring this message and this way of thinking to an ever-increasing population of clients.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Assaf Arie:

Yeah, and I will add to that. Lenker is a little bit different than a traditional marketing company, and we specialize in growth consulting. The reason construction is a really important vertical for us is the vast experience we bring to it.

Myself, being involved in a construction company, and taking it from nearly zero to 14 and a half million dollars in nine years, working closely with John as a client, with Lenker as a client, that expertise allows us to really bring a different way of looking. When you’re working with a new construction company that needs help, we really know how to look at it 360 degrees.

Charley Burtwistle:

Is this something that, I don’t want to oversimplify it, so you can tell me that it’s not possible. Could you briefly describe what a typical kind of client relationship looks like for you guys? For people that maybe aren’t familiar with brand or consulting, and want a little bit more of like, “Okay, well, what do they do? What’s the value they provide,” could you kind of walk through the typical day-to-day as it were?

John Lenker:

Well, branding is something that a lot of founders in the construction industry, their concept of branding as well, I’ve got a logo, I’ve got a company name, got a website. We kind of picked our colors and everybody has the embroidery on their shirt. Really, brand is the belief that people have in the marketplace about the value that you’re going to bring to them as clients.

When you think about the number of voices that are out there competing with you in any given geographical market in the construction industry, and you think about everybody basically saying the same thing, “Hey, we’re going to deliver the best value, the best customer service, the best quality,” it already starts to sound like we could also be selling cars. There’s no differentiation. Helping our clients understand that first, establishing the reason that people want to pay attention to you versus everybody else in the crowd takes some real thought.

It takes digging into what sets you apart. You think, well, what is there, really? Well, there can be a lot of things. I’ll give you an example. There was a client that we had that had an engineering degree. As we’re going through the branding and really thinking through that, it really seemed like the fact that you’ve got an engineer’s mindset really can help set you apart in terms of the way we tell your story.

Think of all the different ways that can impact how you approach a job, your ability to understand and communicate effectively, systems, thinking, all these things that really nobody else could say. Now you’ve got somebody competing, our client out in the competitive field that is saying something that people can really hold onto and remember, “Oh, that’s the company where that engineer started that company. They think about things differently.”

Branding is really about trying to dig into the reality of what you have to offer, and your background and your experiences. To try to find something special to lead with, so that people can understand your value proposition and believe something about you that makes them want to hire you.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, I think that’s perfect. It’s a shame that we don’t have Courtney here, who’s one of our podcast managers here. Have you guys met Courtney Mattern before? Is that …

John Lenker:

I remember …

Assaf Arie:

I think we chatted with her. Yeah, I think we chatted with her in the pre …

John Lenker:

Original.

Assaf Arie:

… Pre-recording, yeah.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, she has gone through or spearheaded two different rebrands from Buildertrend over the past kind of five years here. I love listening to her talk because she’s just so passionate about it. A lot of the preconceived notation about marketing and brand that you were just hitting on is like, “Oh, well, we got a logo and we’ve got colors. What more do we need,” is the antithesis of her beliefs.

She gets on the stage, and she’s talking about it, it stems all the way to the voice that we use on the website and the voice that we use on the phones, and how we interact with each other around the office, and the values that we believe in. Yeah, she’s going to love this episode when it comes out because you’re preaching her type of gospel, for sure.

Speaking of brand and your beliefs and stuff, we were looking at your website before we got on here. The thing that stuck out to me is you have this quote on here that said, “We believe that good ideas are humanity’s most powerful resource,” which to your point, immediately made you guys stick out and differentiated.

I’m like, “Wow, that’s really, really cool.” I was wondering if you could maybe expand and elaborate on the meaning behind that quote, ’cause that definitely stuck out to us.

John Lenker:

Ideas are the currency that we use to influence people in the marketplace. When we don’t think through the ideas that we are expressing about our company and our value proposition when we’re competing, when we don’t put the time necessary to think through what differentiates us, and how to express it in a way that sort of establishes presence in people’s minds and makes us memorable. When we don’t do that, people are just going to kind of randomly remember us the way that they want to. They’ll associate meaning with us.

It’s super important when we think about the power of ideas to think through the ideas that we want to project about what makes us different. What is it that we do that is going to make your project turn out better? What is it we are going to do to save you time, or to improve the quality of the output? If there is no story to tell, if there’s nothing that sets you apart, then people are just going to forget about you.

Being memorable is the most important thing that you can do in marketing. We think ideas are at the core of communication. For us to understand how to make those ideas meaningful and impactful, we need to spend time working through the different branding exercises and the things that bring color and life and vitality to your messages. That’s why we think ideas are so important.

Zach Wojtowicz:

It makes a ton of sense. I had a front row seat watching our own director of brand, Courtney, kind of go through this process. I was kind of enamored with it because it is, you just think, “Oh, it’s just a logo, it’s just the colors, what is it?” I’ve come to understand through my exposure, it actually can take you, it’s almost like the fabric of your culture is what it becomes. People start to become prideful in what those mean and how we convey that.

I think I’ve seen the best companies achieve a lot more. Your product, in a lot of ways, you guys specialize in growth, but I think I’m just kind of going to take a guess that you say, that starts with a really powerful brand because of its reach, and how far it can push people’s perception of what they’re going to get from your product, which for, I think construction people, it’s like, “Well, my house should speak for itself, I’m building this.”

When a construction company comes to you, what’s that conversation like? Obviously, they’re seeking you out, but do you have to sell them on why they should spend the money on improving their brand? Are they kind of like, “I know I need this because the best builders have this?”

Assaf Arie:

Yeah, that’s an excellent question. Majority of the prospects that come to us, they have an idea of what their problem is, and they think if they just fix that thing, if they just get leads from Google, if they just get a better website, if they just redo their logo, all of their problems will be solved. It’s never the case. The brand, the word that I use, is the backbone of your business, of the front of the business, how you present yourself to the world.

You have a lot of backbones for how you run your business internally, but how it interfaces with the world, how your audience meets you, where they’re at, that is your brand. It’s your messaging, it’s how you hold yourself, it builds your culture, it creates the pride you were talking about when your employees are wearing your logos and they’re showing they’re proud about it. That’s the importance.

It is a little bit of a work to take them from where our prospect sitting, where “I need a new website, or I need someone to write my Google account,” to “Let’s go backwards, let’s learn your business, let’s take three months, we call it focus engagement. Let’s get to know each other. Learn everything about your business, learn where you’re at, what was successful, what was not successful, what worked for you in the past, what works for your competition? Who your competition, who’s your audience?”

Then build a smart strategy that will entail all of those things. They may have a great brand, and they may not. They may have great strategies, they may not. That process that we work with our clients gets us to essentially wear their shoes with them and partner with them, see exactly where they’re at, and what’s the smartest way to move forward?

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, I think …

John Lenker:

One of the things …

Charley Burtwistle:

Sorry, go ahead, John.

John Lenker:

Well, just one of the things I want to emphasize is that really a brand is what the market believes about you. It’s what they believe about you. We all start, we go to school, we’re little kids, first day of kindergarten. You’re out there in the playground and kids are forming teams to play baseball or softball or something. Then all of a sudden, there’s one kid who’s really can bat, or can really run fast, and everybody sees it and they go, “Wow.”

Immediately, that kid’s brand, he’s the kid who runs really fast. He’s the kid who hits the ball really well. Now, what does everybody want? When you pick teams, “I want that kid on my team, I want that kid on my team.” Really, that’s what’s happening out in business is we become the company known as the company that really follows through, that really shows up in time, that really has their information flowing properly.

Why? They use a tool like Buildertrend as an example, which is really one of the things that can help differentiate a competitor out there in the field is if they’re the ones who just really have their act together, just think about it that simple. The kid who runs fast, and I want them on my baseball team, the contractor that shows up on time and does everything right, and doesn’t provide me with any headaches because they’re doing something different.

They have their act together, they become the brand that has their act together. They become the brand that just makes my life easy. They become the brand that just does great quality work, because they have more time to spend on it, because they’re not spending their time doing crazy administrative tasks that you would be doing the same way back in the 1990s. What are you going to become known for?

It’s going to be based on your values. It’s going to be based on the quality of your work, it’s going to be based on the customer experience that you provide, but it’s also going to be based on other things that are intangible. Let me just give you a really good example of how branding, it’s really just one component of having your act together as a business. It’s one component, but it’s a component that benefits from a lot of other areas of your business.

For example, if you’re a contractor, and you could be at any stage of growth, you could be just starting out, maybe you work for another company for 15 years, you decided to start on your own. You maybe haven’t quite reached your first million and you’re working out hard every day, hustling, trying to get the next deal, the next deal, or you’re a company that’s maybe done five or six million, and you want to double or triple the next few years. We’ve got clients at every stage of growth.

It really comes down to, in any given moment, that if you have an understanding of your job at your stage of growth, the things that you need to focus on as a business, based on how mature you are as a company, and if you can put your attention and your energy into increasing the velocity of your success, by changing your messaging. Now you’re this kind of a company that’s doing this volume of business. The way that you need to appeal to the market’s going to change a little bit.

It’s going to be different than the person who’s just starting out, Chuck in a truck who just wants everybody to say they did a good job and get five stars on Google, so they can get the next referral, the next referral, versus going out and doing what we’re doing for one of our roofing and remodeling clients right now. We just shot a commercial that features zombies, and you’re like, “What the heck do zombies have to do with roofing and remodeling?”

Well, you’ll have to see, the commercial will be out in a couple weeks, but really what it’s about is they’re at a place in their growth where they’re going to want to create an impression in the marketplace that they’re going to overtake what has been the market leader for the last 20 or 30 years, that they’re going to go out and put out a quality of content that’s going to stick in people’s minds and kind of an announce to the world, “Hey, this is going to be the next generation market leader.”

It’s going to supplant this other company that’s been the market leader for years. There’s strategy around how to create your messaging to accomplish certain things. It’s not just about how can we get more leads? In this case, it’s about how can we establish the impression in people’s minds, that, wow, this company here, they really seem like they are the market leader now. At different stages of growth, there’s different emphases that we want to have. How we arrive at what we should be doing at any given time is research and analysis into the competitive field.

Really thinking through your strategy because your strategy should help influence how you position yourself in and how you do your branding, if that makes sense.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I think the analogy that you said about the kids playing kickball or whatever, really kind of stuck out to me. You do think about things like that, “Oh, that’s the fast one, or that’s the one that can kick really far,” but you also have the negative, you can have a negative brand. It’s like, “I don’t want to pick that guy. That’s the slow one,” or whatever that may be. I think as you were talking, I was just thinking to myself like, oh, I can think of a couple companies that I can think of.

Oh, they’re the ones that are always late or the ones that are always overpriced. I think Assaf, you mentioned this, too, is a lot of times when you come in and start working with people, they already have kind of an established brand or things that they’re doing. I’m curious from your guys’ experience, what are some of the maybe biggest mistakes that companies may make when trying to come up with a brand, or not come up with a brand, that you see when you start working with someone for the first time?

John Lenker:

I think the biggest mistake people make when they’re trying to approach their brand or their branding is thinking that it doesn’t matter. It’s just a logo, it’s just a name. The problem is that, especially in the world of construction, at the end of the value chain, there is an end user. There is someone who lives in a home or who’s going to occupy a space. One of the most important things to them, and this is a universal goal that I think every company should have in the construction industry, is that you want to project the idea that you at least have good taste.

Charley Burtwistle:

Right.

John Lenker:

If you’re involved in something that a homeowner eventually is going to be occupying, and you’re looking at contractors that really don’t seem like they have good taste, or you’re thinking, what impact is that going to have on my overall vision? It’s not just residential. You’re working with architects, and it’s your designers on major skyscrapers. It’s the same thing. You want people to seem not only competent, but to seem that they “get it,” they understand aesthetics, they understand experience design.

If you’re working on important projects, and you’re looking for contractors that are going to contribute to that important project, how easy is it going to be for you to pick the competitor that really projects a sense of having their act together, that communicates clearly in an efficiency of words, that demonstrates that they have good taste in the way that they design their own communications, their website, the trucks and their signs and their apparel, all these things.

It’s super critical that we not underestimate the importance of branding, and making sure that you project a confidence, and in a sense that you have your act together. Just way too many just go through a directory of competitors and just go to their websites. There are just so many that apparently, they don’t think that aesthetics are important at all, or that economy of language, or understanding how to communicate value matters at all.

In branding, it’s not just about that first impression, like the billboard going down the highway. You see the sign, “Oh, I made an impression,” but it’s also the follow-up. It’s the email you got, it’s the phone calls. It’s the delivery of the person showing up at the door and what they have to say, kind of their script. It’s all of it. Every point of interaction with the marketplace or anybody in the value chain, you are forming an impression, just like the kid on the playground.

If everybody isn’t getting trained in the brand voice and the value proposition of the company, and how we differentiate ourselves, if it’s all random, if it’s just what’s on your website, and it’s not in the customer service training, you’re going to have all sorts of random things going on that diminish the impression people have of your brand, and that make it inconsistent. That’s one of the worst things that you can have in the world of marketing and branding is an inconsistent representation of who you are and what your value proposition is.

I think that the worst mistake is, besides maybe designing your own logo and naming your company and your slogan, is just thinking, it just doesn’t matter. It really does matter. Sometimes, Assaf and I do talk about the lies we tell ourselves, and that’s one of the lies is that brand doesn’t matter.

Assaf Arie:

I’ll add to that. For those who do think it matters, a big mistake is not understanding who their audiences are or properly segment those audiences. They think that, let’s say for example, a concrete shop, I do beautiful concrete work, everyone will hire me. Well, it’s different when you have different audiences for just plain driveways. Almost every single family home will have a driveway, but pool deck is a specific audience.

Commercial accounts, commercial work, that will be different audiences. Whether you do basement work and foundation, that will be different audience. Understanding those audiences, separating them to make sure you can communicate effectively to each one of those audiences, and deliver a message that resonates with them when they’re looking for you or for your services. A mistake we see is lump summing everything in one place. You get those trucks, it shows everything in the back of the truck, but by the time you get to line 10, you forgot the first nine.

They feel, “Oh, we do this, and we do this, and we do this, and we do this, and they just lump everything in one pile and think that this is effective. That’s big with construction companies because they want to show everything they do, and they want to show it on their shirts, and they want to show it on their trucks, and they want to show it on their website. It’s important to separate those elements. Like I said earlier, meet your audience where they’re at.

If you’re looking after pool decks, it’s a very specific audience. In the case of a concrete company, there are certain household income, there’s certain zip codes, and their messaging is going to be different. Really understanding the value of learning who your audiences are and how to communicate with them.

John Lenker:

There’s a real practical side of what Assaf’s saying. Let’s just look at an example in the world of digital marketing. When somebody goes online, they’re looking for something very specific. Are you going to put a website up that has everything lumped on one page, and say a little bit about everything, or are you going to craft landing pages that specifically talk about that one thing that is being searched for, like decorative concrete for patios or something?

You’ve got an article about decorative concrete for patios, and you do a really good job of creating an experience around that that really answers the question and draws the audience member in. Now, you become the brand that really understands my needs, that really answered those questions I have. Now, I’m going to call you, because I’ve got confidence in what you just showed me. Extend it even beyond the digital realm and thinking in terms of audience orientation.

We don’t just have customers that we’re trying to have hire us. We’re trying to attract employees in a very tight job market, where, “why would somebody want to come work for me?” Well, I better have a brand impression in the mind of the prospective employee that makes them think, “You know what? If I’m going to go anywhere, I’m going to go to that place because I heard about their reputation for how they treat their employees,” and this and that. Here’s another audience: your banker. You’re always trying to finance something in the construction industry.

What is the brand impression that your bankers have about your company? Oh, yeah, this is the company that is reliable and dependable. They’re the ones who showed me the best business plan I’ve ever seen in it from a contractor before. They’re the ones who, yeah, I’m absolutely going to put trust in those guys. Branding for audiences, audience orientation of messaging, it’s all super important.

Yet it’s something that most contractors don’t do, and they don’t have the time to do, which is why companies like Lenker exist. To help refine their messages for their various audiences and help sequence that message so that the right piece of the message comes at the right time to move people through your funnel, so that they become not just generally interested, but they become buyers and advocates for you.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, you probably saw Zach and I both nodding there. Everything that you’re describing that contractors have to deal with, or construction companies have to deal with. Also, the same thing that construction tech companies have to deal with. We’re constantly, at Buildertrend, internally talking about, We have home builders that buy our software. We have remodelers that buy our software. We have pool builders. We have people that put up fences. We have people that do highways. We have people that do solar, wind energy, things like that.

We actually just had a meeting yesterday about defining our segments of customers and who we’re talking to, who we’re selling to, even who we’re building the product for, and making sure we’re meeting them where they’re at. I could see why Courtney was so excited to have you guys on the podcast today because you’re teaching our listeners a ton of stuff, but also, Zach and I are taking notes.

We’re like, “Oh, we’re going to take this back to the exec team and use this ourselves.” I also thought it was really interesting you mentioned specific landing pages, which is a really good segue. You guys will actually have a landing page set up specifically for Buildertrend customers, is that right?

John Lenker:

That’s right.

Charley Burtwistle:

Sweet.

John Lenker:

People, they can go to Lenker.com/Buildertrend and get some follow up information from this show, and also from the kinds of things that we can do that will help grow your business as a contractor.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. I think we’re getting close to time here, but before you guys go, I actually think that a lot of our listeners will be interested in redoing their brand, or at least thinking more about it than they have in the past. What would be good next steps for them? I think I saw on your website you have some free resources out there. You guys do consultations. What would be the best route for them to go?

John Lenker:

Well, I’d say come to Lenker.com/Buildertrend, and there’ll be some information there about the kinds of services that we offer, but there’ll also be a contact form where you can schedule a free consultation. Assaf I and some others would be happy to jump on and learn a little bit about your situation and needs.

Assaf Arie:

I will add to that. Anyone that listened to this, feel free to contact us. Even if you think you’re too small, you can get 30 minutes with us on the phone, a lot of insights of next steps of what you should do. Before you may be ready for a company like us, if funding is an issue, still contact us. We are very happy to chat for a little bit and give you some roadmaps. Maybe we’ll say, “Hey, do those five things and then let’s talk again in a year when you’re more ready.”

Zach Wojtowicz:

I love it. Yeah, I feel like I could probably listen to you guys talk about, all brand enthusiasts though just kind of fire me up. I’m sitting here nodding like a bobblehead. It’s so critical.

John Lenker:

I have to say, there was a client that came to us, and they weren’t ready. We spent that time. Six months later, they came back, they were under a million in revenue at the time, and they hired us, and they made the investment. A couple years later, they’re just under three million in revenue. It can happen to you.

Charley Burtwistle:

I love it. Thank you, guys, so much for taking the time to come on today. I think Zach and I could both chop it up with you guys for hours, so we may have to do this again some time. Really, really appreciate it. Again, for the listeners out there, we’ll have this linked in our shownotes that you can go out there, but again, it was Lenker.com/Buildertrend if you want to learn more. Otherwise, nice to meet you guys and thank you very much for coming on.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That delivered. I love talking about that stuff. I kind of joked at the end, I felt like I wasn’t saying much, but it’s because I was just like, “Yes, yes, yes.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Bobblehead. Sometimes you don’t have anything to add but head shakes.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That was awesome. I would’ve kept going. Could have been a two-hour episode. Usually it’s you saying that, but like I said, I love this stuff. I think there’s a huge, interesting piece of psychology and how people perceive. I think about the greatest companies, a lot of times, it’s not even the product. It is just like, “I want to wear the logo.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, 100%. I kept coming back to, how do you actually pick a product or pick a service? Yeah, you look at reviews and you look at pricing, but it’s hard to differentiate. You need something that sticks out to you, to say, “Oh, that’s the company that does this.” It’s not just, “Oh, there’s ABC Roofing, X, Y, Z Roofing, CMB, my initials, Roofing.”

It’s like, “Oh, CMB, they’re the ones that give you the free guarantee with every new roof, or they’re the ones that come out and do the free consultation. Oh, they’re the ones that use Buildertrend and have really nice showmanship and professionalism, and they’re always on time.” Something needs to stick out. Doing the work, people will know you from that after the work is done, but you need a way to get your foot in the door and show them the value that you’re going to deliver. Show them who you are, show them your brand to get them to let you do the job and then you follow up on it.

Yeah, fantastic episode. Just another perfect one of, they are facing the same issues that we are facing at Buildertrend. I shouldn’t say facing the same issues. They have the same opportunities that we have here at Buildertrend, and our brand marketing team 100% delivered, but it’s a constant iteration. We’re constantly seeing the market evolve. We’re constantly trying to stay up with the competitors.

A lot of things that they were preaching, I was writing down over to the side, I’m like, “Yep, we need to make sure we’re doing that. Make sure we’re doing that.” Yeah, I loved them. Could have talked to them for hours.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, it feels like free advice.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

We give to experts and they’re talking about how they approach their customers. I’m kind of like, “I should do that.”

Charley Burtwistle:

100%.

Zach Wojtowicz:

It’s a lot of fun. There’s such a craft into this specific, actually, my best friend does a little some of this, too. He’s in advertising, so it’s a lot of similar, using market strategy and analysis. They do a lot of data analysis, too. It’s a really interesting industry.

I really think their invitation, if you’re a listener who maybe is an aspiring customer, you’re trying to get to a million, two million, I think this is one of the X factors that gets you there.

Charley Burtwistle:

Oh, 100%.

Zach Wojtowicz:

You have to start paying attention to those little things. Take them up on their offer, go meet with them. It can propel your image in your marketplace. That will pay for itself.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

It just will. People will naturally share, “Man, that was an experience I want my friends to go through. I wanted to ask him if he had more time about how do you measure that? I think ultimately, it is the work to build the brand, pays in new revenue, referrals. It’s really powerful. A lot of fun.

Charley Burtwistle:

A lot of fun.

Zach Wojtowicz:

You know what else is a lot of fun, Charley?

Charley Burtwistle:

Huh?

Zach Wojtowicz:

“The Building Code.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Oh, thanks, Zach. Yeah, it’s great. Yeah. If, in another life if you get fired from “The Building Code,” you can start a brand agency.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s right. You never know where it’s going to take us.

Charley Burtwistle:

You never quite know. What you do know is that if you enjoyed this episode, like, review, and subscribe. That’d be great. If you’re listening to this on a Thursday, hope you have a great Friday and the rest of your weekend.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Is that part of our brand?

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, I think so.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Let’s make it.

Charley Burtwistle:

Having a good weekend?

Zach Wojtowicz:

No, the like, comment and subscribing.

Charley Burtwistle:

Oh, yeah. That’s part of my brand for sure.

Zach Wojtowicz:

It is. It truly is.

Charley Burtwistle:

My personal brand.

Zach Wojtowicz:

He won’t stop telling me when we’re like at the water fountain, talking about “The Building Code.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. I sign off all my emails.

Zach Wojtowicz:

It’s obnoxious.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. All right, until next time, I’m Charley Burtwistle.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I’m Zach Wojtowicz.

Charley Burtwistle:

Peace.