The five-star advantage: Harnessing the power of reviews to grow your business

Zach Wojtowicz (00:05):

Welcome everybody to “The Building Code,” where today, we’re talking about five-star Google reviews. Charley, you got a five-star Google review on your personal profile.

Charley Burtwistle (00:15):

Gosh, I should start one and to start tracking reviews. That would actually be a great way for us to just … Actually, I think there’s a Black Mirror episode where they literally do that.

Zach Wojtowicz (00:24):

They let people review other people?

Charley Burtwistle (00:27):

Yeah, and it’s like everyone can see what your reviews are and every interaction that you have with them, they can review.

Zach Wojtowicz (00:32):

Back in the day in Facebook, remember you had the wall where people could leave comments about you and what they think of you?

Charley Burtwistle (00:37):

Yeah. Bring it back.

Zach Wojtowicz (00:39):

Bring it back. But like public facing.

Charley Burtwistle (00:41):

Yeah, and you should watch the Black Mirror episode, but essentially that review becomes their new credit score, so you have to have a certain review go into things.

Zach Wojtowicz (00:50):

That is dystopian.

Charley Burtwistle (00:52):

But we’re not going to be talking about that.

Zach Wojtowicz (00:53):

We’re not getting into dystopian.

Charley Burtwistle (00:54):

We’ll be talking about five-star business reviews to grow your business, improve your reputation, improve your brand awareness, ultimately get more deals, have a better client experience, and which feeds the flywheel of getting even more five-star reviews.

Zach Wojtowicz (01:07):

That’s right.

Charley Burtwistle (01:08):

You will not be listening to Zach and I about it because we are not experts, clearly. Who are we?

Zach Wojtowicz (01:13):

How do reviews work?

Charley Burtwistle (01:14):

How do reviews work? Zach, who do we got today?

Zach Wojtowicz (01:16):

Today, we’ve got Chris Meeken of the Black Tie Group. They’re based out of New Hampshire, which caught my eye because I’ve always wanted to visit New Hampshire and I akin it to what Scotland was like for me. And I’m afraid if I go to New Hampshire, I’ll just be like, “Chris, you hiring? I need a job. I’m moving to New Hampshire. I found Paradise.”

Charley Burtwistle (01:33):

So, how would you like to have a little extra revenue of me living in your basement?

Zach Wojtowicz (01:38):

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I’m extremely on time with my rent payments, for sure. Please. No, and what’s really interesting is I can only imagine the type of clientele that are going in New Hampshire. My understanding about it is it’s a lot of people with second, third homes, so we’re going to get it out a little bit. And I think that is also very important with that level of clientele, to get into of how do you manage that process and how does Chris implement his business.

Charley Burtwistle (02:06):

Let’s find out.

Zach Wojtowicz (02:07):

Yeah, let’s get him in here, without further ado. Hey Chris, welcome to “The Building Code.” It’s great to have you here today. I always like to ask our guests when they jump on, as we get to know. Some people we know a little better than others. How are you? And is this your first podcast?

Chris Meeken (02:21):

I’m doing well, man. No, I’ve been on a couple. Brad Leavitt. Nick at NS Builders. I’ve been on with both of them. And then recently I was on with Reece, at Adaptive. But otherwise, yeah, no, things are good and the podcast thing’s a treat.

Zach Wojtowicz (02:43):

Love it.

Charley Burtwistle (02:44):

Well, since you are a podcast vet, we will debrief with you after, where you can give us constructive criticism on how’s Zach and I did.

Zach Wojtowicz (02:51):

Yeah, we like to ask just so we can solicit reviews of our performance, sometimes on air, sometimes not.

Charley Burtwistle (02:57):

Before we get too much into meat and potatoes of today’s interview, I would love just a quick background on you, Chris, kind of how you got started in construction and a little overview of Black Tie Group, as well.

Chris Meeken (03:08):

Yeah. Background, grew up just outside of Boston. Right after Host High School, I went into the Marine Corps. I was stationed out Camp Pendleton, did a bunch of stuff on ships. We were on Navy ships most of the time. I was a scout swimmer with a raid company and after that, moved back to New England, and kind of fell in love with dirt bikes and power sports industry. So, kind of cut my teeth in customer service and sales in that world, for quite a bit of time.

(03:49):

And then I moved on from that a few years back. Got into some personal training and some business, growing some businesses in that world and doing some consulting. And then, eventually, I decided I wanted to go into a property management/ catering to the people around the lake.

(04:16):

I had always been handy. My uncle’s in construction/ a builder. My dad’s been in construction but me being in construction wasn’t until 2017. And we’ve kind of just grown and developed relationships from there.

(04:38):

I can swing a hammer, and I can build things, and I can frame. It’s just I’m better suited to run the company and do sales and network and whatever. I don’t know that all my guys appreciate that all the time. But yeah, it’s interesting, and it’s a fun industry, and I love doing it. So, yeah. Kind of the background.

Zach Wojtowicz (05:03):

I love it. One of the things that, in your area, in your region, what does your clientele look like? Who are you working with up in the New Hampshire? Are you getting a lot of people who are coming up for vacation purposes? Are they locals? Is it all over the place? What’s your experience look like from a customer market standpoint?

Chris Meeken (05:26):

I would say we are primarily second and third home user clients. We do some work for locals, but they’re not usually true locals. They may have transplanted but because we’re on a big body of water, we try to cater to lakefront and kind of that higher-end clientele.

(05:57):

As you guys know in the industry, when you start to cater to those people and offer different things like Buildertrend and project management and kind of the handholding white glove service, it can dictate a little bit of a higher value and not everybody wants the project management software or that level of service, so it just kind of lends itself better to that clientele.

Charley Burtwistle (06:31):

Yeah, absolutely. So, Zach, if you ever want to move to New Hampshire, it sounds like you have a builder, lakefront, already signed up.

Chris Meeken (06:37):

Yeah, ready to roll.

Charley Burtwistle (06:39):

Not trying to get you out of but it seems like you have an easy out now.

Zach Wojtowicz (06:46):

What are you trying to say, Charley?

Charley Burtwistle (06:47):

No, that’s awesome. And what we brought you on to talk about today was how to get more five-star reviews. We noticed you kind of showcasing some of your client reviews directly on your website and, obviously, construction specifically, on the lead gen and sales side of things is so reputation based, so having that transparent review and communication style is extremely beneficial.

(07:09):

But we just wanted to talk through from your vantage point, why reviews and the client experience and that level of transparency is so important for construction companies in general.

Chris Meeken (07:22):

Yeah. I think if you’re not, and some of this is through coaching, so I think we all just learn as we go, but I don’t spend 3% of my revenue on advertising like we are all coached to do, where it’s a small enough community where I’m kind of clicked in, so that I don’t necessarily have to do that.

(07:49):

But the review side of things, especially being kind of the new kid on the block, adds to some validity to who you are and their customer experience. So, some of those five-star reviews, people just are bouncing on the website, and they can read at least a small bit of a customer experience. Then, that gives them, maybe they click the call button or at least take the phone call to move forward with that next step. And then with that, the relationships of those people are also helpful because I use those clients kind of as calling cards for the next sale.

(08:36):

So, I had a meeting two weeks ago with a potential new client and I brought them to a client’s project. I’m like, “Hey, just come over. Walk through the house. Check out what we did. See if this is what level of work you would want at your house.” Because we’ll get questioned, like, “Oh, are you capable of doing this?” And it’s like, “Well yes. Do you want to see?”

(09:01):

I’ve got a Rolodex of people that I can be like, “Hey, do you mind if I just stop by with a client? They’re looking at doing a bathroom model. I just want to show them what we did.” “Yeah, no problem. Come over.” So, that’s huge. That piggybacks on the reviews.

Zach Wojtowicz (09:15):

Yeah, I think that’s really unique. I mean, it starts from the very beginning. It’s like, stand by your work, right? And show what you’re doing as opposed to just say what you’re doing, which is just very easy to do.

(09:25):

And I think with construction, I’m going through this right now. I’m trying to find someone to do, not very exciting, but a drainage. I have a drainage issue in my backyard, so I’m evaluating the way that they’re going about it now as a Buildertrend employee working with contractors, and I’m looking at their positioning, their documents. They’re like, “Are you willing to show me examples?” All these things. And it really does make a big difference in terms of that trust and that ability to say this person’s going to do what they say they’re going to do, not just sell me on something and close the job and move on. Right?

Chris Meeken (10:02):

A hundred percent. I think I’m very, as a business owner, emotionally connected to the experience of my clients. It’s also a small network of people, so we’ve got this island on the lake called Governor’s Island, and it’s a pretty high concentration of wealth.

Zach Wojtowicz (10:25):

With a name like that.

Chris Meeken (10:28):

They all have an internal forum and a group email and all the things.

Zach Wojtowicz (10:34):

For the island?

Chris Meeken (10:35):

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz (10:37):

I don’t know what I was expecting, but this is what …

Charley Burtwistle (10:39):

That’s sweet.

Chris Meeken (10:41):

So, if a contractor goes on there and high bids somebody, or as we locally call an FU bid, that’ll run through that like wildfire. And they’re like, “Hey, so-and-so from whatever, tried to charge me $12,000 to paint two kitchen doors. Don’t use them.”

(11:00):

On the other side of the coin, if you do a good job then you end up on their list of recommended. Like, “Hey, we’ve used them before. They were great.” And then when you go down eight doors down the same road, you can be like, “Oh, I was down at 136. I just did their kitchen. You’re at 256.” Like, “Oh, we know them. Oh yeah, they called us. We love you.” It’s all relationship and reputation. And if you mess that up, you’re done. You just won’t ever work on that island again.

(11:33):

So, for people trying to grow and do certain things, sometimes we just, without being crass, you just eat shit. If you lose, is it worth a $10,000 something to just delete any work in the future? It’s like no, we’ll just save face. Say, “Yeah, no problem. We’ll take care of it.” Absorb the cost and then do better next time. Learn from that. But you’re not going to burn that bridge at the expense of a few million dollars worth of work in the future.

Charley Burtwistle (12:12):

And going back to the point you had earlier around, we don’t invest heavily in marketing spend, that’s just kind of your reasoning to do stuff like that is you can think of it as marketing spend, but not marketing spend for one deal, marketing spend for multiple deals and the rest of your business is ensuring that one client has a great experience because you know that’s going to lead to the one that you do have a massive revenue gain on.

(12:37):

So, I think that mindset is really impactful that not a whole lot of people think about that way.

Chris Meeken (12:45):

And sometimes we did a small project for … And this is where it gets personal. My son’s English teacher and another teacher at his school wanted a small addition, and it’s like I had to have the conversation with myself, “Hey, do you want to put yourself in a situation where if this goes sideways, it impacts how the kids are at school or that network of people?” And it’s like, man, we need to be on our best. Not that we don’t want to be all the time, but it’s like, yeah, this has a real big effect if we jack this one up.

(13:21):

But their front entry, based on the project scope, was supposed to be pressure treated. And I’m like, “This whole project is gorgeous, and I’m like, I don’t want to take pictures of a pressure treated front deck and entry.” So, I’m like, we’re doing vintage Mahogany. I’m going to eat all the costs. I’ll just, anything over the cost of the PT, I’m going to eat, and we’re going to do cable rails. We’re going to do it to the nines just like we would any other job. And for our portfolio, we can take a picture of the front of that house, and it’s in our brand.

(13:57):

Whereas, we were trying to do that job on a budget for them, but it just wouldn’t have been. So, I’m like, yeah, that’ll be advertising cost for us. We’ll take that 2,500, we’ll push it forward. But that’s just a decision that you make in that moment.

Charley Burtwistle (14:14):

Yeah, absolutely. I think that another thing I’d love to hear your thoughts on is, obviously, expectation setting on the front and ensuring that you have good brand awareness and reputation pays huge dividends to getting new jobs, once you have that contract signed. What are some of the tenants that you have to ensure that your client has a fantastic customer experience and will ultimately become a promoter for your business, post job completion?

Chris Meeken (14:41):

I think it’s asking often, “How’s it going?” Or, keeping that line of communication open. And then the guys that have been with me the past five or so years, kind of understand that what the customer wants is what we need to provide. But we could also, especially with remodeling, if you trip over rot or you trip over something else, it’s like you immediately need to grab the client and say, “Hey, look, we just ran into the fact that we can touch the drywall in your house from the outside. This is going to be a problem. I know we were supposed to be here for a deck, but you don’t have a ledger. Your bottom plates are gone. Eight out of 10 of these studs are rotted through. How do you want to proceed? What level of moving forward do you want to go to get into this?”

(15:36):

And we all want to do A-level work, but there’s not always A-level budget. So, it’s like, “Hey, do you want A-level? B minus? B works? We can patch this together and get you back going, or we can rip off four feet of all the sheathing around your house, strip the whatever. How do you want to proceed with that?”

(15:59):

And I think it’s just that very transparent communication with the client, so that they feel like they’re making the decision, and you’re not just making the decisions for them, helps to foster that trust and ensure that they have a better experience moving forward.

Charley Burtwistle (16:16):

I love that. And then are you actively asking for clients to leave review, post job completion, or are you just kind of hoping organically that they’re spreading the good news for customers listening to this or contractors listening to this, that don’t live around Governor Island? How can they go about getting that word of mouth?

Chris Meeken (16:36):

I could do a better job. The ones I have I ask. So, I don’t have it written into my policies and procedures at this moment. Typically, what we do have written in stone is, we always get a branded etched Yeti, and we’ll always give them a Yeti with our brand on it. We’ll put a card in there and sometimes we’ll ask on that card, “If you get a minute, any chance you could write us a Google review?” And then you just hope that they do it.

(17:15):

We’ve never done a paid incentive or a hard arm twist to get. I know we just bought a new work truck recently and the sales guy reached out and texted me, he’s like, “Hey, I’m short five Google reviews this month. Any chance you could jump on there and help me reach my numbers?” And I’m like, “Wow, this guy has, he’s trying to hit metrics for reviews on a monthly basis.” I’m like, I don’t even put … I appreciated it, but at the same time I’m like, “Yeah, that’s a lot of work to try to drive that.”

Charley Burtwistle (17:55):

Absolutely.

Chris Meeken (17:55):

I could do better.

Charley Burtwistle (17:57):

What about the flip side of the coin there? I am sure everyone has mishaps that happen, or potentially you’re working with a client like Zach and his drainage where he is just being a real annoying presence at all times.

Zach Wojtowicz (18:10):

You got to be that guy.

Charley Burtwistle (18:12):

How do you go about potentially clients that may have a negative experience in one aspect of things and ensuring that you kind of right the ship and take care of that experience before they can leave a negative review?

Chris Meeken (18:27):

I mean, I think I typically try to … I own all of our mistakes. I think becoming defensive, or not taking, owning your part in all of it, can really add to a bad experience. I try to take a psychological approach and just be like, “Man, at the end of the day, somewhere we didn’t communicate well enough, or somewhere we didn’t meet an expectation. And maybe that just wasn’t clearly set or clearly explained, but I feel like that falls on us almost regardless.”

(19:10):

Now, if a client becomes real difficult, and you haven’t figured out how to manage them properly, then yeah, I guess you could just have a complete falling out and they’d just be absolutely angry. But we haven’t gotten there yet. I think the closest to having dissatisfied customer would be sometimes those lingering punch list things or a funny warranty issue.

(19:43):

And it’s like you’re onto your next big project and your next big fire and then it’s like, “Hey, you need this door adjusted or vent thing.” And it’s like, “Ah, I got to pull a guy off to send him over there.” And life just gets busy and then the client reaches out, “Hey, did you forget about me? I need you to do this adjustment.” “No, no, no. We’re going to get over there.”

(20:07):

So, I do feel bad when some of those linger on and I think if there’s anywhere where somebody could be a little bit dissatisfied, it would be in that area. But I do try to reach out and be like, “No, no, no. I definitely haven’t forgot you’re on top of mind. I’m going to get some.” We do get it. It’s just we don’t have a warranty division. Be like, “Hey, yeah, I’ll send the guy over today.”

(20:35):

But yeah, otherwise I feel like the day-to-day stuff, we haven’t really had an issue where I would see somebody leaving us a negative. I don’t think we’d leave the job if we felt like they weren’t satisfied.

Zach Wojtowicz (20:51):

What has been kind of your perception around the business impact of positive reviews? Do you see, since you aren’t putting money towards marketing spend, but you are taking organic approach, which I think in your line of work it’s really effective. It’s just something that people go to with their friends for a referral of like, “Hey, do you have anybody? It’s just really natural.”

(21:19):

Do you track that? Do you see those reviews jump off into a pipeline? You’re actual able to say, “Okay, I know my brand is strong.” I know these reviews but I can actually say, “Hey, how’d you hear about us?” And people are like, “I saw your Google reviews.”

Chris Meeken (21:35):

Yeah, I do ask occasionally, “Where did you get our name?” And I’ll get my Google site visit metrics and some months they’re up, and I feel like I don’t have any phone calls and other times it’ll be spam, like somebody’s emailing me through the website. “Oh, love your brand. You should be selling our clothing.” And it’s like you had five clickthroughs. And I’m like, yeah, and they were all junk.

(22:06):

So, as far as if they’re coming from a review, I don’t know. I think I just use those as supporting documents as to why we’re legit. And I think we’re a small enough company, and I’m local enough, where I can really honestly say, “My kids are in school in the same town as we are. I’m not going anywhere. I’m fully invested in this area. I would be an idiot to do anything that was counterproductive to the growth of my brand here.” I’m not building in Florida while living in New Hampshire, and I could just care less. I see the same people. We wave to the same five trucks on the way to work every day. It’s not that big.

(22:54):

So, yeah, I think you’re forced to hold yourself to a higher standard. I mean, honestly, you’ll just get run out of town or you’ll have a bad reputation. I love having a first two or three meetings and somebody say, “Oh yeah, we talked to so-and-so about you.” Or, “We heard great things.” Or, “So-and-so speaks so highly of you guys and the work that you do.” That’s the best thing that we can hear, regardless of a Google review.

Zach Wojtowicz (23:26):

What about in those situations where you feel like you just kind of missed each other on the expectations. It’s bound to happen in any sort of client servicing role. Customers frustrated. They take it out on the internet. Has that ever happened to you? And if it does, if it did, how would you deal with it?

Chris Meeken (23:48):

I haven’t seen it yet, for us. I haven’t in any of the forums and stuff, I haven’t had anybody badmouth us. In my previous life, and other industries and things, definitely dealt with some hate mail or anger towards things.

(24:11):

I think even in life, you kind of have to take the high road on that. And if you want to be truly introspective and sit with it, and you feel like there’s any part of it that you own, I think you just own it.

(24:27):

But if you truly, honestly can sit for a minute and feel like, “Man, I did nothing wrong in this situation.” I think you just have to let it go and disengage. I’m not, would never advocate for somebody to be the keyboard warrior, this giant. Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz (24:48):

All good arguments are settled on the internet. Let’s be honest. That’s definitely a great way to go about it.

Chris Meeken (24:54):

If you think about the amount of energy and time that you would have to spend to reply to that and then get in some debate back and forth, I would rather just put my energy into moving forward and doing better in business and life. We’ll just learn from this one.

(25:13):

And even in those, you can learn, “Man, what did we do wrong here? How did we set this up to fail? And what can we do better to not do that in the future?” Maybe it was vetting the wrong client. Maybe something a red flag slipped through that we missed. I mean, that’s happened.

(25:30):

I think we get some, especially the bigger projects as you’re coming up in the industry. And I know for me, starting small, it was like, “Ooh, a $35,000 deck.” It’s like, “Oh, $100,000 project.” And then as scale goes, it’s like, “Ooh, a million dollar reno.” And then you tend to ignore some of the things. Like, “Well, they seem a little bit difficult. We’ll do it anyway.” And then you get to the 99% and then the wheels start to come off the bus and you’re like, “Remember that red flag? Here it is.”

Zach Wojtowicz (26:07):

Looking back, the signs were all there.

Chris Meeken (26:08):

They were all there. Yeah, it’s like a bad relationship.

Zach Wojtowicz (26:11):

That’s all relationships popped to my head. It’s like maybe if I just … You dumb brained. You just talked yourself into it. What are you doing? I think that’s exactly what I think too. It’s like obviously we do our best to make every customer as happy as possible. I’ve been on the end of some frustrated customers in my day, and it’s an interesting place to be because like, “Man, I feel like we did everything we could that we.” But you just can never control what the other person’s perspective is and what they’re experiencing. And you just try to be really empathetic with them and listen to them do the best you can to end amicably, and you just kind of have to move on.

(26:50):

And I think for in contracting, it’s not uncommon to get those people. News stories will get run about you sometimes and a lot, I’ve talked to builders who’ve had those situations. God forbid lawsuits happen. And a lot of times it just came down to communication on the front end. Misaligned.

(27:13):

And so, reviews are one thing, but is as much as two is put in writing kind of what the experience is going to be like upfront because that prevents so much of the backend administration that could come with running a business.

Chris Meeken (27:27):

I think a lot of that, it’s easy to say, “Yeah, I can build a house.” It’s like, but then how do you create that experience, and what are you, with time and confidence, it’s like what are your non-negotiables? So, it’s like, okay, if we’re doing this in the beginning, you’re kind of just like a yes person. “Yeah, we can do that. We can do that.”

And it’s like, “Well, we want to provide our own kitchen cabinets.” “Okay, yeah, that’s fine.” “We want…” And then over time you’re like, “No, we’re not. I’m providing it or we’re not doing it. Or, if you’re providing it, then I’m still going to put a margin on it because if my hands are touching it, there’s the risk of us damage.” Whatever that is.

(28:12):

And some people will call that bogus where it’s like you’re building in an insurance policy, or however you want to word that. But if we have responsibility towards it, and my guys have to move it three times A, we should be paid for our time. And B, there’s a risk involved. So, it’s like, yeah, we’re just going to get paid for that, or we’re not going to do it.

(28:39):

Some other things, as your time becomes more valuable, and that comes with age, it’s like to the whole thing with working for free. It’s like you start to put together this process of first step is this. Second step is this. We don’t go past this step until you sign an agreement that says, “We’re moving forward from this spot to the next one and here’s why.” But until you get there, you have a lot of little bumps along the way. You know?

Charley Burtwistle (29:11):

Yeah, absolutely. Chris, really appreciate the time today. Super insightful commentary from you that I’ve personally found beneficial, so I’m sure everyone listening has as well, too.

(29:20):

Maybe last question for you before we wrap things up is, on the flip side of the review kind of commentary that you provided, obviously, great for advertising and customer experience, how do you use that internally, maybe to ensure that you’re constantly improving the client experience and services that you’re providing and listening to that feedback and continuing to iterate to be what you clearly are right now, which is best in class?

Chris Meeken (29:47):

Yeah. My team, we talk often and without using social media as a thing. It’s like whatever our litmus test is or what do you want to share with the world or so on the simple side of it to my guys, I’m like, “If you wouldn’t take a picture of what you’re doing and post it on Instagram with your name on it, and I’m so happy with this work, then I don’t want you to do it.” “If it’s not picture worthy, then just fix it, to an extent.” It’s construction, so I mean that’s a high level, easy thing to say. We also know there’s nuance in there, but we just want to do A-level work and the guys know what that is.

(30:32):

And are there moments where that may not be possible based on scope and budget? Yes, and I think that’s the biggest thing that we bump up against is if the project is on a tight budget, and we will do it occasionally depending on what’s going on, my guys are just like, “Hey, we should be doing it this way.” And I’m like, “Yes, but it’s not in the budget. Do I want to pull out all the stops on this? Should we be doing this? Would this look better? A hundred percent. We can’t on this one.” And that can sometimes create conflict because they just want to do A-level.

(31:16):

So, yeah, internally we want to be proud of what we’re doing and continue to provide high-level, quality construction.

Zach Wojtowicz (31:28):

Love it. Well, let’s leave it there. Chris, it was a pleasure having you on.

Chris Meeken (31:30):

You, too, guys.

Zach Wojtowicz (31:31):

As a customer success professional, I love talking about the ways we can use our information to make the best customer experience possible and all the variables that go with it.

(31:43):

So, for our listeners out there, it maybe something that you don’t always think about, but it is one of those things that is really quite easy to start doing and get some information and encourage those to take Chris’s words and just start getting those five-star reviews. You never know what’s going to happen from it.

Chris Meeken (32:01):

For sure. Yeah. It could make or break your next deal.

Zach Wojtowicz (32:05):

That’s right. Thanks Chris.

Charley Burtwistle (32:06):

Thank you, Chris.

Chris Meeken (32:07):

You’re welcome, guys.

Zach Wojtowicz (32:08):

Just had Chris, Black Tie Group, Charley here, talking a little bit about customer reviews, customer experience, strategy, all the things that I get all fired up about. Just cannot stop at a good monologue when it comes to fantastic customer experience. What’d you learn?

Charley Burtwistle (32:23):

I learned a lot. I think the thing that stood out to me the most was his mindset. And he didn’t necessarily say it directly, but kind of you’re going to lose the battle, win the war. Oftentimes …

Zach Wojtowicz (32:33):

Love that.

Charley Burtwistle (32:34):

The two kind of examples he gave is potentially eating some of your top line revenue and making sure that the product that you are putting in place is something that stands up to your standards, and it’s something that you can showcase and use as advertising to get the next job.

(32:51):

The other example he gave was when it comes to differences and client experience, taking the high road, ensuring that, hey, maybe I put the hand up here even though I don’t feel is my fault because I know that’s going to have a better client experience. And again, they’re going to give me a five-star review in the end, and I’ll get the next project because of this small difference that I took the high road on.

(33:10):

So, I thought his mindset there was really, really inspiring. I know a lot of us like to fight the little things and always be right, so I think that was a good mindset check for me, as I go back to my day-to-day here.

Zach Wojtowicz (33:23):

You talking about me?

Charley Burtwistle (33:24):

No, I’m talking about myself, personally. So, I think that, yeah, talking to Chris. I’ve said this every outro ever, but everything that they talk about is so applicable to any industry outside of just construction and Chris’s kind of world-class in what he does. So, it’s great to learn from him, and I’d love to have him back on again.

Zach Wojtowicz (33:44):

Yeah, and I think when you kind of look at it, the next five-star review comes from the next good customer. To find a good customer, you need to have conditions of what your do’s and don’ts are. You mentioned that specifically, and I really think that’s very poignant. It’s a hard lesson to learn something that most businesses don’t have the privilege to turn away work because I feel like it’s their only chance to get fish on the line.

(34:10):

And he was really hitting at that maturation process of when you’re in your early days, which a lot of our customers are, one-, two-, three-year companies, it seems like you’re just trying to get to tomorrow. And so, those customer qualifications that lead to good or bad reviews depending on those really make a difference. And if you can find ways to put in qualifications or qualifiers of who you’re going to work with that probably will find customers who are very like-minded, who understand what you’re trying to do, what you’re about, how you work, all those things, and that will go a long way to getting more of those reviews over time rather than just rolling the dice and kind of seeing what you get.

(34:48):

A three-star review to me is like, you hit some highs. You hit some lows. Try to find more highs. You do that by finding good customers that will want to give the free press because you were more aligned.

Charley Burtwistle (35:02):

Yep, absolutely. I couldn’t have said it better myself, Zach.

Zach Wojtowicz (35:06):

That’s why you didn’t.

Charley Burtwistle (35:07):

That’s why I didn’t. I just let you.

Zach Wojtowicz (35:09):

Awesome stuff. Well, Chris, thank you so much for coming on “The Building Code.”

(35:12):

Listeners, thank you so much for being “The Building Code” subscribers. We love you. And if you want to leave us a five-star review on Google.

Charley Burtwistle (35:20):

Great segues, Zach.

Zach Wojtowicz (35:22):

Oh, we’re getting just in our prime.

Charley Burtwistle (35:23):

We talked about it, how it’s kind of hard to ask. If you really want people, well, guess what?

Zach Wojtowicz (35:27):

That’s right.

Charley Burtwistle (35:28):

We’re asking.

Zach Wojtowicz (35:28):

And here we are being chill, saying, “Please leave us a review on all platforms where podcasts are available.” I see a few on there.

Charley Burtwistle (35:36):

Five stars on Spotify. Thumbs up on YouTube.

Zach Wojtowicz (35:38):

Some of them aren’t even our mom now.

Charley Burtwistle (35:39):

Yeah. We got some other ones.

Zach Wojtowicz (35:40):

Yeah. That’s fantastic.

(35:42):

Thank you so much everybody. We’ll catch you next time. I’m Zach Wojtowicz.

Charley Burtwistle (35:46):

And I’m Charley Burtwistle.