From dream to done: How financing brings homeowner visions to life

Zach Wojtowicz:

What’s up, everybody? Welcome to “The Building Code.” Zach Wojtowicz here.

Charley Burtwistle:

Charley Burtwistle here.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I just keep mixing up my intros.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, it keeps me on my toes.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s right. I got a lot of feedback at BTU last night that people like it.

Charley Burtwistle:

Oh, really?

Zach Wojtowicz:

No.

Charley Burtwistle:

I got some feedback today from Danielle actually, that someone at BTU today is a huge fan of the podcast.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Oh, that’s who I talked to last night.

Charley Burtwistle:

Oh, well she said that they told her that they like me, not like me, but they said I feel like I would relate more with Charley than I would Zach.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Ouch. Wow.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Well, that’s really honest feedback.

Charley Burtwistle:

I just remembered that.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s not how he phrased it to me.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

But I appreciate that. All right.

Charley Burtwistle:

I’m so glad I remembered that here so we could record the moment that I told you.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s right. Let’s stay on script today, Charley.

Charley Burtwistle:

Okay.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Because.

Charley Burtwistle:

Because we have some kind of bigwig fancy schmancy bank people coming in to talk to us a little bit more about lending, financing options, things that we could present to homeowners to ease the burden of a financial project a bit. So, I will not waste any time. Let’s get them in here. What do you say, Zach?

Zach Wojtowicz:

Let’s do it, and it’s super awkward because this whole time they’ve been sitting to our left. So, we got Landon and Andrew. Hey, guys!

Landon Weaver:

Hey.

Andrew Clark:

Hey.

Landon Weaver:

Hey, guys. The opposite of fancy schmancy.

Zach Wojtowicz:

No, no. We were …

Landon Weaver:

We’re anti-suit. We keep it casual.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Well, I was kind of hoping it would pan, and it’s like, you’re in like, tuxedos.

Andrew Clark:

No. No suits.

Zach Wojtowicz:

No? Aw.

Andrew Clark:

No.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Not anywhere at Nelnet.

Andrew Clark:

We’re anti-suit.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I love that. A bank without suits.

Andrew Clark:

We keep it casual. That’s right.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Where do I sign up?

Andrew Clark:

A bank for the people.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I love it, a bank for the people. All right. Well, we didn’t really get into the intro a little bit, and I’m already kind of touching the mic because I noticed in my last episode. I’m going to try and avoid playing with the mic today.

Charley Burtwistle:

Okay.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Self-conscious, and the feedback. The whole thing. Tell us a little bit about Nelnet.

Landon Weaver:

Yeah, so Nelnet Bank. It’s a member FDIC bank. We’re located out of Draper, Utah. Deep roots in student loans, so if anybody’s ever heard of Nelnet, likely from our parent company, Nelnet, Inc., who’s out of Lincoln, so right down the street from you guys. A lot of different products. Private student loans, student loan refi, but a few years back, they reached out and wanted to start some home improvement lending, which is my background and Andrew’s background, and that’s why we’re here today.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I love it. I love it. So, you made the trip from Utah.

Landon Weaver:

That’s right. We consider Omaha and Lincoln our second home.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah.

Landon Weaver:

But we love it out here.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I love it. Wow. Thanks for coming in. It’s a lot of fun for Charley and I to kind of get in, see our guests in person, you know? Makes the dynamic a little bit different.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

A little bit different. Like when we talk about you, like pretending you’re not here. You know?

Andrew Clark:

The headquarters of Buildertrend really just has a nice feel to it.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s right. Yeah.

Charley Burtwistle:

You guys have been here a few different times, inside Buildertrend HQ.

Andrew Clark:

We’ve been here a lot. A lot of putting greens.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. That’s what, when I tour for BTU, that’s what I point out. You can find the putting greens. It’s the easiest search-find game you can, because you can’t really miss them. But, yeah. If you’re ever in Omaha, Nebraska, come check out our putting greens. Andrew, Landon. Why are you here today?

Andrew Clark:

You know, we recently launched a new product with Buildertrend, the Buildertrend Financing Powered by Nelnet Bank product, and we’ve got a lot of traction, and so we’re out here to talk about a little bit more and how we can benefit contractors and their customers.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I love it. I love it. Well, let’s dive a little deeper in there, like specifically, you know, what is the significance of us offering these types of things for our customers and our homeowners?

Landon Weaver:

I think if we start on the homeowner side, we’re really wanted to empower the customer to get the project of their dreams done. Right? Oftentimes, customers have the golden sink and the marble countertop vision, maybe don’t have the budget for it, or maybe just drastically underestimated the project cost, and we want to allow them to still get the work done of their dreams even if they can’t afford it at this moment, or just feel more comfortable spreading out payments over time.

Andrew Clark:

Yeah. Financing is really about convenience. It’s about making it easy for a customer to choose to do business with you. And so, when you bring that to the table with the customer, they’re more likely to say yes, say yes to a bigger project, and say yes quickly. So, that’s what financing’s all about.

Landon Weaver:

I think people will notice almost every industry out there is offering financing. Whether you’re at a furniture store, an electronic store, pretty much anybody out there. They’re offering financing because it enables customers. It helps them get the project done, make decisions a little bit faster, and home improvement remodeling is no different than that.

Charley Burtwistle:

That’s awesome. Something I, and it’s not on the list of approved questions here, so we may have to cut this, but I love when we have partners on the podcast, and I think it’s really fascinating. I know our listeners do, too. Just to hear kind of the origin story of how worlds collide. So, you guys have mentioned you’ve been in the Buildertrend HQ a ton of times, you consider Nebraska your second home. What is kind of the process of developing something like this look like with a partner? How did it come to be, and kind of how did we get to where we’re at today?

Landon Weaver:

As Andrew always says, the stars aligned for this project. When I first got brought on, we were doing a lot of surveys with contractors on what they need. There’s a lot of banks in this industry, and there’s some good, some bad out there, and there wasn’t one size fits all for contractors. And so, we did a lot of surveys to see what they like in a lender, what they need in a lender, and at the same time, Buildertrend was doing the same thing. And luckily, both being Nebraska companies, Nelnet, Inc. and Buildertrend, there’s a lot of relationships there, and that’s how we got connected. And I remember the initial meeting, scoping out the relationship, both of you I think were in there, a couple years ago.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Mm-hmm.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yup.

Zach Wojtowicz:

In our real, yeah. Again, for our listeners, real jobs.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. They didn’t have two podcast hosts.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. Imagine in a meeting about financing, we’re just like, podcasting on the side.

Charley Burtwistle:

It’s actually the live play-by-play.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah.

Landon Weaver:

But that’s where we went and scoped it out. You know, the funny thing is, the answers and the needs of the contractors met what we both wanted to build, and that’s when we decided, let’s do this. Let’s create the best program we can out there, and Buildertrend has the relationships, and they’re dedicated into providing the best services for contractors as well as Nelnet Bank, and that’s kind of how it came to fruition. It’s been a couple years in the making. A lot of testing, a lot of Q&A with contractors. Is this working? And that’s why we’re so excited to finally launch this product and get some traction.

Zach Wojtowicz:

So, what were some of the specific challenges and pain points that you guys were hoping to address with the experience? I know we had this workshop. We talked about what were the things that alignment looked like, and what are we hoping to kind of get out of this with this program?

Landon Weaver:

Quite a few different pain points for the contractors when it came to financing. They want to focus on what they do best. They don’t want to be bankers.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Mm-hmm.

Landon Weaver:

If it’s going to be difficult for them, they’re not going to use it. So, simplicity was our key. Quite a few pain points when it came to funding schedules. You know, larger loan amounts as well. Little things like that, that other banks weren’t providing for kitchen and bath and other remodeling type contractors, and that’s what we definitely wanted to address in this program.

Andrew Clark:

Yeah. When I think about pain points, or reasons to offer financing, some contractors have no experience with financing. That’s fine, you know? Financing is a great tool, and if you have no experience, don’t be afraid of stepping into something like this because it helps with all sorts of pain points with customers. How often do they underestimate how much a project’s going to cost, right? Like, we ask contractors that all the time, and the answer is always like, all the time.

Landon Weaver:

All of them.

Charley Burtwistle:

Right?

Andrew Clark:

Right.

Landon Weaver:

Every single one.

Andrew Clark:

Yeah. And financial friction during the entire sales process. How often is your customer hesitating during the sale? How often are they having to phase their project? How often are they having to trim features off their project that they really want, but they just can’t quite get it to fit into the budget? Financing is all about convenience, and it’s the way that you conquer a lot of these objections.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Makes a lot of sense. I mean, are we able to kind of get into some of the terms and the things that Builder Trend and Nelnet are bringing into through our solution?

Andrew Clark:

Yeah. We’re happy to go over kind of the benefits and the features.

Landon Weaver:

For sure. There’s quite a few different things that set us apart, and one of them is flexible funding for the contractor. We want them to treat it like a cash project. We’re not going to tell them when you can take funds, how you take funds. It’s keep it flexible. We don’t want to discourage them to want to use the financing.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Right.

Landon Weaver:

Right? That, we mentioned the larger loan amounts. We’ll go all the way up to $150,000 on these loans, as long as the customer qualifies for that.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Terms and conditions may apply.

Landon Weaver:

Terms and conditions.

Andrew Clark:

Yeah. On approved credit.

Landon Weaver:

An approved bank statement. FDIC member, da-da. $250,000, da-da-da. But with a lot of these jobs, these are large kitchen and bath remodels.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Right.

Landon Weaver:

And the customer doesn’t have to finance the whole project, but to Andrew’s point, and he said it best, they underestimate the project cost, whether that be by $5,000 or $50,000. And so, we want to enable them to really get the work done of their dreams. And I think one of the main benefits as well, of solving friction, is keeping everything in the Buildertrend app, and that’s where it’s so important. Contractors don’t want to bounce around to different apps to request funds here, or to have customers apply there. We keep it in Buildertrend. Great platform, so why not integrate it with you guys? Which is what we did.

Andrew Clark:

You don’t have to be a banker to offer financing, right?

Landon Weaver:

Exactly.

Andrew Clark:

Keep it simple, give your customer some extra ways to get their project done, and we’ll handle the banking for you.

Landon Weaver:

One of the fun features that we have, to Andrew’s point. We make it easy. We’ll provide contractors with links for their website. Links for the Buildertrend proposals, so they can just integrate there, so if the customer sees the price and they have that deer in the headlights look, right below that, they can see some financing terms. They can actually click on the link and get their offers with no hard credit check. We’ll provide flyers that contractors can print out and put in their showrooms. They can put it in a leave-behind packet with a QR code, so the customer can just scan it, takes them right into the application. So, all the contractor has to do is set that up with their customer success rep, and we’ll take it from there.

Charley Burtwistle:

Gosh. This is awesome. As you guys alluded to, first meeting, Zach and I was in, two years ago, and then I don’t think I’ve been in another one since then.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. We cut him out.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Wasn’t bringing value.

Charley Burtwistle:

I didn’t provide value. No value. But hearing you guys just explain, a lot of the original hypothesis around this from two years ago coming to fruition is really, really cool to see. I mean, this seems like, I use this term lightly, but a hashtag game changer, right?

Landon Weaver:

Absolutely. We tested this with quite a few different contractors, you know. We had multiple phases, iterations, where we’re like, okay. What’s working? What’s not? We really want to listen to the contractor, customize it specifically for them, rather than what’s always in the best interest of the bank, as you see a lot out in the industry.

Andrew Clark:

And we’re certainly not done.

Landon Weaver:

No, no.

Andrew Clark:

This is going to keep iterating and getting better and better for contractors, you know, as long as the need is there.

Landon Weaver:

Mm-hmm.

Zach Wojtowicz:

So, why would someone go with this option through Buildertrend and Nelnet, compared to the others in the market? Because there are other players in the space that offer this, in terms of the pricing, the interest rates, you know, obviously, the all-in-one from the Buildertrend side. What’s your guys’ perspective on, you know, why using this one over others?

Landon Weaver:

First thing that comes to mind is the fact that this is integrated within Buildertrend. These contractors are already on the app. They can, you know, attach it to their proposals, request funds through the invoice feature, and on top of that, simplicity. Simplicity is key. You cannot make it difficult and expect contractors to want to offer it. And that was our goal from day one. Let’s keep it simple.

Andrew Clark:

You’re not going to get a really complicated product, where you have to analyze things and figure out what your customers are going to want. One simple cost for the contractor. It’s really easy for a contractor to understand and implement into their business processes.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I think that’s really important. As somebody who’s worked with customers, at Buildertrend, quite a bit, even if they have, there’s kind of two types, right? If they don’t have processes, if it’s easy to onboard and do it, it can kind of create them. And then the other alternative is a lot of times with customers, they already have processes. And so, if they see this big adoption curve, where they have to do reconstruction on their sales talk track, or they’ve got to be able to learn a new entire function of Buildertrend, that’s where the resistance is, and it’s really exciting to hear that we should be able to cater to both, whether you’re new to Buildertrend or, you know, someone who’s been with us for 10 years. Ideally, it’s part of your workflow and it’s just kind of an additional experience that your homeowners will have an option for.

Are you guys also including this on all of our features that have financial impact? So, you know, sales proposals, change orders, estimates? Or is this limited to kind of one part of the program currently? Or what kind of is the use case from the Buildertrend functionality side?

Andrew Clark:

When you think about the effectivity of financing, if you’re just waiting to the very end of the sales appointment to say, once you get that initial gut-check from the customer. “Hey, I’m not sure I’m going to be able to swing this, this is a little outside of my budget.” If you wait until the very end to offer financing to your customer, you’re going to lose a lot of the power of it. Because a lot of the power of financing is that it impacts your customer’s psychology. They dream bigger. They think that they can get the project that they really want, and not have to phase it or trim down the project or anything like that.

So, we enable the contractor with a lot of different resources to be able to offer financing. We provide resources to be able to implement this into your proposal templates, provide resources to implement it into your website, provide resources to implement this into your email campaigns and lead generation activities, a number of different resources throughout the sales process, all the way back to the, you know, when you very first get the lead. You can start making sure that your customer’s a qualified customer and not a tire-kicker, right?

Landon Weaver:

And we want the customers to dream big, right? If a customer knows they have a year of no interest to pay this off, or a low monthly payment loan that fits their budget, they will dream big. And if we can enable the contractor to offer that early on, that’s where they’re going to find a lot of success. And, you know, many times, contractors are in the home. Customers are saying, “Well, take a look at my hallway bathroom while you’re here instead of just the kitchen.”

Andrew Clark:

Right.

Landon Weaver:

Or let’s look at some flooring. Let’s look at some lighting. If we can enable them early on by providing the contractor with those materials, excuse me, providing the contractor with those resources, that’s where they’re going to see great increase in job size and customer satisfaction as well.

Andrew Clark:

Right. I mean, it happens all the time. They offer financing to a customer. The customer says, “Okay, yeah, I’ll take the financing.” They apply and get approved. Maybe it was for a $15,000 loan. And like, a week or two later, we’ll get a message back from the contractor. Hey, they now want a $35,000 project, because they added this and X, Y, and Z features to the project. It happens all the time, and that’s one of the benefits of financing, is it helps you to get those bigger projects and get your customers to purchase something more, something more profitable for your company.

Landon Weaver:

And we allow the customer to apply for a higher amount, in case change orders or upgrades come up. And, obviously, they don’t need all the funds, they don’t have to use them. But it’s good for the customer to know, and we ask that same thing to contractors. How often are change orders coming up? And customers can be indecisive up until the very end, so we want to make sure they have the funds available.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Well, and I think, this is a common problem for construction businesses they’ve had to learn the hard way, which is if they’re letting their customer’s imagination run wild, and there aren’t any options of how to actually provide that funding, a lot of contractors will do it, and then at the end of the job, roll it into the last invoice, but they’re actually fronting the money, and that’s how you run into cashflow issues, surprises, or, worst case, which I’ve seen, is disagreements about what we agreed upon in the scope of the contract, and now you’re in a dispute over payment and you’re more of a collections agency, whereas a financing option actually eliminates all that and makes it so you can have security. You’re going to get your money, they’re going to get their work, and the project’s going to go a lot smoother at the end of it.

Landon Weaver:

Contractors don’t need additional risk.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Right, right.

Landon Weaver:

They don’t need to become a bank, float the money, like you said, become a collections agency. We want simplicity. The bank, when we approve a customer, know they have the funds available at that point.

Andrew Clark:

I was flipping through a kitchen and bath outfit just yesterday, and kind of talked about that exact same thing you just described.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah.

Andrew Clark:

It’s like, we’re spending so much time on redesigns, you know? Like, if I just saved the time on the redesigns, that alone covers the cost associated with the program, right? Like, it’s worth it for us.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. Definitely. And that’s, it’s really interesting when I talk to customers. I’m notoriously, Charley and I joke about this on “The Building Code.” We’re not contractors, you know. We’re not experts in construction. But we learn from our customers, and I look at things like, as a consumer. I look for people that offer financing, because I know it gives me options.

So, when you’re positioning yourself in the market, as much as anything, too, it also levels up your experience that you can provide your customers, and it probably will bring more people through the website channels, through these other touchpoints with your customers, which also drives easier business, rather than having to wade through like, “Oh, I’ve got to figure out how this person’s going to pay for this project, are they going to do it, are they not?” It’s like, you already have a way to actually, as you said, reduce friction, but kind of bring better quality leads, too, I think.

Landon Weaver:

There’s no warmer lead than someone’s who’s already been approved for $100,000.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Right.

Landon Weaver:

And it’s specifically tied to that contractor. It’s not like a home equity line of credit where they can get approved and go use it with, you know, Chuck and a truck down the street who’s going to be 30% less but maybe not do as good of a job. These are tied to the contract. We fund the contractor directly, with the customer’s approval. And I think there’s a lot of misconceptions when it comes to financing, that it’s only for customers who can’t afford the job, which is not true.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I almost, if I’m buying something, I almost always look for financing.

Landon Weaver:

I’m a sucker for it.

Zach Wojtowicz:

If interest rates are low, and I can float it.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

It’s worth it.

Landon Weaver:

Laptops, I’ve done it. My washer and dryer, $1,500. Give me 12 months to pay that off? Heck yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Freaking Amazon.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

0%, 12 month, interest. I’ll take everything.

Landon Weaver:

I’ll tell you, I say that to contractors. Amazon, you can get $120 pair of shoes and they’ll say, split it into four payments when you go to check out.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. Right.

Landon Weaver:

It’s not just for customers who can’t afford the job.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Right.

Landon Weaver:

And that’s whether it’s HVAC, whether it’s windows, or emergency type jobs. It’s not just needed for those. It’s a convenience for customers who maybe are getting a kitchen remodel. Not an emergency job, but why not provide the convenience? And that’s what makes them want to work with you.

Andrew Clark:

In Salt Lake, I was driving just the other day, and you know, I saw a billboard for Mercedes-Benz offering 0% for three years. But that’s a car for rich people, right? They’ve got the money. Sometimes I hear from contractors, like, all my customers pay cash. Well, that’s the only option you provide them. Of course they just pay you with cash.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Right.

Andrew Clark:

And sometimes what looks like cash to you could be financing in the background.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yup.

Andrew Clark:

They could have got that home equity line of credit, and it’s a check to you, sure. But they were funded via a loan. So, yeah. It is a convenience factor, and don’t think that it’s just for somebody who needs it, who can’t afford your project. A lot of times, it’s just convenience. I personally think about myself. If I had saved up $60,000 for a kitchen remodel and the contractor came back and even said, it’s $60,000. That’s still going to be uncomfortable for me to just spend all that money and deplete myself out.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Oh, yeah.

Andrew Clark:

The financing just helps you have a little more convenience with it.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. Keep your nest egg, right? Without having to burn it all in one shot, and I think, you know, I think contractors assume their consumers aren’t like, thinking that way at times. The really savvy ones that I’ve talked with have that perspective, but it is an education thing. We talk about that a lot. It’s like, we’re hoping people understand that these processes are the norm, and that we’re going to offer this solution. I am curious. Do you have any success stories that we’ve seen through the Buildertrend solution with Nelnet so far?

Landon Weaver:

Yeah, even the contractors that we’re piloting this program with would reach out and thank us. We had one that he was the fourth bid on a project. He was the most expensive. He offered financing and won the job.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Wow.

Charley Burtwistle:

Hmm.

Landon Weaver:

And we get contractors saying thank you, or I up-sold this job because of the financing. And happens all the time, and customers are going to get multiple bids, so what is the contractor going to do to set themselves apart?

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. What I love about this, just as kind of an overarching theme, more on the Buildertrend-specific side of things, but we have made a commitment over the past year or so to focusing on the homeowner part of our product. We’ve always considered the GCs, the re-modelers, our customers, the people that are paying us. We’ve never really spent a ton of time thinking about what are their customer needs, and obviously, if you improve that relationship, then they improve, and then we improve. So, like, that example that you gave right there is like a perfect example of why fostering that relationship, providing them better options, providing a better homeowner experience, is going to, ultimately, benefit the re-modeler or GC even more so. So, I think it’s a cool kind of shift from a Buildertrend perspective as well, and this is like a great first step with great partners, and like, walking down that avenue.

Landon Weaver:

We pride ourselves on our customer service. We know that we are a reflection of the contractor. We want the best experience for the homeowner because if they’re mad at us, we don’t want the contractor to be like, who am I sending my customers to?

Charley Burtwistle:

Right.

Landon Weaver:

So, we’re going to provide the best experience possible because we are an arm of the contractor, essentially. We are the funds that they are bringing to the project.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Love it. Well, we’re kind of up against the clock here. Appreciate you fellas spending some time talking about this with us. If people wanted to learn more about these options, what would be the best way for them to learn more and even get started?

Landon Weaver:

Yeah. We have a financing-specific rep at Buildertrend named Keith Botkin. But I think any contractor can reach out to their customer success rep, let them know they’re interested in the homeowner financing program, and they’ll get them over to Keith and that team, and very simple signup process. We can get you signed up in a day, and then we’ll do a quick training on the program, go over how to offer it, what are the benefits, and they’re on their way. They’re good to go. Customers can officially apply at that point.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Just that simple.

Landon Weaver:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Love it. Well, thank you Landon, Andrew, for your time today. It was great catching up.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Feels like the reunion.

Landon Weaver:

And Charley, you still owe me some hats. You have a great hat game.

Charley Burtwistle:

Oh, yes.

Landon Weaver:

And I think I asked you for hats multiple times.

Charley Burtwistle:

Wow. We could probably hook you up with some “The Building Code” hats.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Oh.

Charley Burtwistle:

As a gesture of apology, and appreciation for coming all the way out to Omaha, Nebraska.

Landon Weaver:

Would be a pleasure.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. We’re excited to see the results, and we’ll have to talk about it in a different episode. See you in maybe a year from now. Who knows where it’ll be.

Landon Weaver:

Sounds good. We appreciate it, guys.

Zach Wojtowicz:

All right.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yup, thanks for the time, and thank you for listening, everyone out there. As always, remember to like, review, subscribe. One, two, three. And have a great day, most importantly. I’m Charley Burtwistle.

Zach Wojtowicz:

And I’m Zach Wojtowicz. See you.