Live from IBS with Nick Schiffer: NS Builders
This week on The Building Code we are LIVE from Las Vegas at the International Buildersโ Show! Nick Schiffer of NS Builders joins Paul and Tom on the podcast to talk about New Yearโs Resolutions and how the construction industry can make improvements over the next year.
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Paul Wurth:
Letโs have Nick do whatever intro he wants. May be a fun way to start. Itโd be a fun way to start. You hate this.
Nick Schiffer:
I do.
Paul Wurth:
Itโs great. Youโll love it.
Nick Schiffer:
You are listening to โThe Building Code,โ your guideโฆ I knew I was going to screw that up. It was close.
Paul Wurth:
Who was that?
Nick Schiffer:
Your guide to building.
Tom Houghton:
Is that my voice?
Paul Wurth:
No, that was in Nickโs.
Tom Houghton:
Your guide to a better way.
Nick Schiffer:
Your guide to a better way of building your business.
Tom Houghton:
It was good.
Paul Wurth:
I like that.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah.
Paul Wurth:
Or maybe we just start episodes from now on.
Tom Houghton:
Just start.
Paul Wurth:
We always called and then do it at the end.
Tom Houghton:
I know yeah, we talked about this.
Paul Wurth:
The Modern Craftsmenโs great. They always start cold.
Nick Schiffer:
You like the banjo, too?
Paul Wurth:
Yes, I like it all.
Nick Schiffer:
That guy recorded that in my office.
Paul Wurth:
Really?
Nick Schiffer:
Yeah.
Paul Wurth:
We need music, Iโve been telling you about that. I want a new jam.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah, we got a new jam.
Paul Wurth:
Weโre working on it.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah. Stay tuned for our post IBS podcast.
Nick Schiffer:
Did you check up on our sonic branding that we came up with? Doug came up with?
Paul Wurth:
No whatโs that?
Nick Schiffer:
Sonic branding. Do you know what sonic branding is?
Paul Wurth:
No.
Tom Houghton:
Like trademarking through-
Nick Schiffer:
Yah, like a noise. Itโs like everyone here and then itโs all of a sudden, โOh, I know who that is.โ If I say Intel computers, you know what that ding, ding, ding. Thatโs sonic branding.
Paul Wurth:
Yeah, I know that.
Nick Schiffer:
So I had said-
Tom Houghton:
I think we just had to pay them five bucks for that by the way.
Paul Wurth:
Yeah, whoopsie-daisy. Weโll cut that out.
Nick Schiffer:
So I had it right on cue, right? I was talking to Doug about it and Iโm like, โWe got to come up with something.โ
Tom Houghton:
Sure.
Nick Schiffer:
And itโs like, well, you canโt use a saw because thatโs just dumb. And I canโt remember how he came up with it, but I think one of the guys had a tape measure out and he had it strung out and he let it let go and it went. And he heard that and he recorded it. And so if you listen to our videos at the beginning, it starts with that, every video.
Paul Wurth:
I like it.
Nick Schiffer:
So when youโre scrolling Instagram and you get the sound on you hear that.
Paul Wurth:
I didnโt know that.
Tom Houghton:
Then you know.
Paul Wurth:
When did you start doing that? Because I havenโt noticed that.
Nick Schiffer:
Probably four months ago.
Paul Wurth:
You know, the problem is when I-
Nick Schiffer:
Well, you also have the sound off, so then you hit the sound.
Paul Wurth:
I always do that.
Nick Schiffer:
We play it again at the end, but we, we play itโฆ Because in the beginning you kind of want it to go slow to fast. And then at the end we have it go from fast to slow.
Paul Wurth:
I like that. Thatโs always my problem with the Instagram. I never have my sound box. Iโm usually in a place where I donโt want the volume to go crazy when Iโm doing Instagram stories.
Tom Houghton:
Like a church.
Paul Wurth:
Like church. When Iโm supposed to be paying attention to my kids. Iโm just kidding. I love them.
Nick Schiffer:
Your wifeโs like, โWhat are you doing?โ Nothing.
Paul Wurth:
Nothing, working.
Nick Schiffer:
I heard you, I heard the story. I heard stories going.
Paul Wurth:
Yeah, exactly.
Nick Schiffer:
I heard Nickโs voice.
Paul Wurth:
Thatโs how you get caught.
Nick Schiffer:
You were skipping.
Paul Wurth:
Yeah. Thatโs how you get caught. Yeah. Well, they should have an automatic closed caption on those things. If the sounds off [crosstalk].
Nick Schiffer:
So we talk about that all the time. So most of our videos that we do on Instagram, we donโt talk. Itโs very just process-oriented but interesting enough to understand whatโs going on. But we talk about transcribing videos a lot.
Paul Wurth:
You should totally do it. I love that when that happens, because again, I think weโre all the same. Weโre all not listening volume a hundred percent of times.
Tom Houghton:
Absolutely.
Nick Schiffer:
So weโre going to be launching a different kind of video series more towards the business side and marketing and sales and what kind of what works for us.
Paul Wurth:
Thatโs smart.
Nick Schiffer:
And thatโs where weโre going, weโll put a heavy push on LinkedIn. Because thatโs where that audience is and weโll transcribe that. Weโre transcribing a video of us doing baseboard. Itโs just, no oneโs watching that video and going to read, โOh, now heโs coping.โ Youโre watching that as a video to be interested in and listening to it.
Paul Wurth:
Agreed. You know the transcribed could almost be like your principles of a presentation, it doesnโt have to be the words youโre saying, itโs the concepts youโre talking about. The bullet points.
Nick Schiffer:
Heโs done a few. And I was, โDude, how long did it take you?โ Heโs, โActually not long.โ Iโm like, โWhat do you mean?โ Heโs like, โI put my phone in voice dictation, played the video and it just dictated the footage.โ Thereโs some words that you donโt say properly. So then itโsโฆ
Paul Wurth:
You just go back and edit.
Nick Schiffer:
Yeah it puts cucumber in random places, but yeah.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah big cucumber fans Iโm sure.
Nick Schiffer:
I donโt know why I chose cucumber.
Paul Wurth:
Cucumber, thatโs a weird one.
Nick Schiffer:
I had to think of something random.
Tom Houghton:
That was pretty random.
Nick Schiffer:
Yeah. It was
Paul Wurth:
What word gets mistaken for cucumber?
Tom Houghton:
I donโt want to know.
Nick Schiffer:
You know what it is? Iโm blushing I can feel it, autocorrect. Sometimes itโs damn-it auto-correct and then Iโve had correct auto cucumber. Thatโs exactly why.
Paul Wurth:
Oh, when you actually type in autocorrect saying that they autocorrected you. Then it goes cucumber.
Nick Schiffer:
And then it goes correct has changed the cucumber on me.
Paul Wurth:
People will feel that. Thatโs going to be shared pain there.
Nick Schiffer:
Cool. Thereโs your one minute clip for the episode. Stay tuned.
Paul Wurth:
So if donโt know yet, weโre here withโฆ Have we even announced him?
Tom Houghton:
No.
Paul Wurth:
Weโre here at Nick Schiffer.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah. This is what happens when you donโt do an introduction.
Paul Wurth:
You cannot handle it.
Nick Schiffer:
Tom, it is okay.
Paul Wurth:
Youโre such a control person.
Tom Houghton:
Whoa.
Paul Wurth:
In a good way.
Nick Schiffer:
I think the Sonic branding reallyโฆ They were, oh, this must be Nick.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah, thatโs right.
Nick Schiffer:
They heard the.
Tom Houghton:
You basically should just Sonic brand your voice.
Nick Schiffer:
Oh, well, to elaborate on the sonic branding, you also canโt trademark it.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah.
Nick Schiffer:
Applied for that and they sent me a nice decline letter.
Paul Wurth:
Yeah, doesnโt like that.
Nick Schiffer:
Yeah, you canโt own that sound. Iโm like, โI made that sound.โ Well, someone made that sound.
Paul Wurth:
Somebody, yeah. I love it though. I mean, it does have evoke emotion. When you get that, we talk about all the time in the podcast. Itโs why radio stations do segments, right? Itโs kind of the same thing. You can expect it, you sort of know what youโre about to get into. And it creates a feeling every time.
Tom Houghton:
So in case it wasnโt clear, weโve got Nick Schiffer on the podcast. Iโve just been holding that in for five minutes.
Nick Schiffer:
Thank you for having me.
Paul Wurth:
Can we get Tom a beer from the village vendor?
Tom Houghton:
Nick, thanks for coming back on the podcast. We really enjoyed talking with you and love seeing you and following you on social media. If youโre not following Nick on social media, you need to be. Where would you love them to follow you? All the places, name one.
Nick Schiffer:
Instagram is definitely where we spend most of our time and as builders, weโve been putting a lot of content out on YouTube. And then this year, I think obviously our podcasts, monographs and podcasts as well, partnered up with John and Tyler, but LinkedIn and Facebook are something that weโre focusing a little bit more on this year.
Tom Houghton:
Interesting.
Nick Schiffer:
For different reasons, to touch different segments of what our industry. Obviously thereโs a client driven motive behind it, but thereโs also the big picture of what we do and why we promote what we do and the craft is for industry betterment.
Paul Wurth:
Yeah. And thatโs why we love working with you because weโre the same thing. Obviously, like you said, business, we want to make money. We want to expand our product usage across construction, but thereโs a real opportunity to lift the entire industry up.
Nick Schiffer:
Yeah.
Paul Wurth:
And itโs cool to be a part of it, honestly.
Nick Schiffer:
I mean, thatโs why Iโm sitting at this table. Thatโs why weโve become friends. And, I think weโre friends, right?
Tom Houghton:
But we were absolutely friends.
Paul Wurth:
You guys are getting tighter than me. Because you went out and did some video. I can just picture it in my head.
Nick Schiffer:
He flew a drone in an area and I was like, โI donโt know if we can fly here.โ And he looks, heโs, โI got the okay, letโs go.โ
Paul Wurth:
Yeah, that means he probably couldnโt fly it.
Tom Houghton:
Commsworth, right?
Nick Schiffer:
Yeah, Commonwealth Ave.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah, Commonwealth Ave.
Paul Wurth:
Well, my point is we were all friends together and then you guys just went and did your own thing. So In my head I was doing one of those scenes where you guys are laughing, you go out to dinner.
Tom Houghton:
Running through the fields. Yeah, okay.
Paul Wurth:
Boston Square or whatever. Iโm not jealous.
Tom Houghton:
Sure.
Paul Wurth:
A little bit.
Tom Houghton:
Thatโs okay, you can come next time. Weโll go back.
Nick Schiffer:
I think itโs super important. Even when the company was just me, it was always about me doing itโฆ It was me and one guy and we had to do the best that we could because we wanted to be the best that we could, but also share with what we learned and what we messed up on and how we grew and hopefully help someone. And now thatโs compounded by my team and now itโs them really teaching the technical side of it. Where my focus in communicating with other people, itโs been about culture in the company because what people struggle with is hiring great people. And Iโm fortunate enough to have amazing people that work on our team. I realized that it was based on what we were promoting. The culture that we promoted, the opportunities that we were giving people, despite the investment financially.
Paul Wurth:
Whatโs funny is when people talk about, they have trouble hiring people, they always put it on the pool of candidates. Like thereโs nobody there. Well, maybe you should look at yourself, right?
Tom Houghton:
Turn that mirror back around.
Paul Wurth:
How are you posting the jobs? What are you seeing in the jobs? Whatโs your office look like? Nobody wants to work there.
Nick Schiffer:
Thatโs not true. My office is terrible.
Paul Wurth:
Is it bad?
Nick Schiffer:
I guess mineโs not-
Paul Wurth:
Your best friend Tom would know better me. Howโs his office?
Tom Houghton:
Itโs a work in progress, but the workshop is really magical. Thatโs the best place.
Paul Wurth:
Because you do your own cabinets and things, so you just have a huge workshop?
Nick Schiffer:
Yeah.
Tom Houghton:
Youโve got to focus on the good part.
Nick Schiffer:
Itโs actually not huge, itโs pretty small, but itโs great. The guys in there have done a great job of setting it up. Tom messed around with the garage door for 35 minutes getting the light right. The shot.
Tom Houghton:
Hey, but it looks great.
Nick Schiffer:
I watched that video. Iโm like, โMan, that garage door is perfect.โ
Paul Wurth:
The video is so good. Honestly, your portion of it, with all those shots and you guys walk in the job site, it was quite cool.
Nick Schiffer:
Yeah. I keep seeing up on the 40-foot billboard up here.
Paul Wurth:
Your big face is up there. Good.
Tom Houghton:
You know youโve made it when youโre on a 40-foot LED wall.
Nick Schiffer:
Thatโs awesome.
Paul Wurth:
So weโre at the IBS. Obviously these are all a series. So day two and a half. Were you here yesterday?
Nick Schiffer:
I was, yeah.
Paul Wurth:
Okay. So what do you think? This year, just in general and then any products, you see anything?
Nick Schiffer:
Dude, honestly, so Ken and Nick are with me this year, as well as Doug.
Paul Wurth:
The other, Nick.
Nick Schiffer:
The other, Nick.
Tom Houghton:
Other Nick.
Nick Schiffer:
And Doug and I have been busy with events and a couple of speaking engagements and working with vendors and things like that, which has been super fun for me personally. Kind of stepping outside of my comfort zone, speaking alone in front of people. I had to put a PowerPoint together. I havenโt done a PowerPoint since middle school.
Paul Wurth:
Itโs tough.
Nick Schiffer:
I did a terrible job.
Paul Wurth:
Well, we have a great team. I literally have no idea how to build PowerPoints.
Nick Schiffer:
My graphic designer, I was casually mentioning it and heโs like, โDude, I would have done it for you.โ Iโm like, โGood to know next time.โ But the showโs great. And what was really cool to see is yesterday there was a big meetup and it was driven around social media and the crowd that kind of hangs out there and the fact that there was so many people there compared to last year and then an hour after it was done, people were still hanging out and there was just this massive amount of positivity floating around and people talking and communicating and networking. It was just super, super cool. So for me thatโs what this is about. My teamโs bouncing around, networking, but theyโre focused on really developing personal relationships with the vendors that we work with and we want to work with.
Nick Schiffer:
I think about the first time I was here, all I tried to do is walk and see everything. I donโt need to see everything, I need to come and develop relationships with people. Not that I need to get a deal or, or they give me something or I give them something itโs I just need a relationship with this person because this isnโt a product I use and when I run up against the wall and with an issue, who do I call?
Paul Wurth:
Itโs weird weโre not going backwards, but itโs full circle. We spent all these years, communicating electronically so much that now we got to get back to going, it is really important to meet somebody face to face. You know what I mean? Thatโs what this is about now. The other thing is, from an outside perspective, the whole online community that youโre a huge part of, itโs growing big. I can just see it. Iโm watching it from the outside more and more people are here just for the Instagram meetups with you guys and that networking.
Nick Schiffer:
Itโs funny.
Paul Wurth:
Itโs a ball rolling downhill pretty fast.
Nick Schiffer:
You mentioned full circle in the communication, right? So I havenโt actually talked to a lot of people about this but recently, we had this guy on our podcast tattoo fly guy and heโs part of this corporation for fly fishing for veterans. He was on our podcast for a couple minutes talking about hisโฆ It was for veterans day we had him on. And a week later in the mail, I get a thank you note for having him on the podcast. And meanwhile, I do a pretty good job about email follow ups. Thank yous, thanks for the opportunity. Hey, I heard I lost the job, itโs okay, thank you.
Nick Schiffer:
Iโm pretty good about that. Stopped it. I ordered a thousand branded postcards and every person I meet with, architect or just anyone. Past clients, I get to my office, I write a note, I throw it in the mail.
Paul Wurth:
Huge.
Nick Schiffer:
And itโs because when I remember opening that, and I never even reached out to him and I think about that fact that I should be reaching out to him.
Tom Houghton:
You should send him a thank you note.
Nick Schiffer:
I should schedule coffee with him to say, โThank you.โ For the thank you note.
Paul Wurth:
Well, maybe you guys have a thank you off. And itโs just [crosstalk].
Tom Houghton:
Thank you, no, no, thank you, no, no, thank you.
Nick Schiffer:
But I remember the way I felt opening it, and itโs like, youโre absolutely right, weโre so digital that you are losing this personal touch where now I send it and a few people reached out and was, we bought a car, we just re-upped our lease on my wifeโs car. And I sent a thank you note, โHey, thanks for making that process easy. Look forward to working with you in the future.โ He was, dude, no one in my entire career has ever thanked me like that.
Paul Wurth:
Thanked me, yeah.
Nick Schiffer:
And I was, โCool man.โ
Paul Wurth:
Thatโs huge. I totally hear that.
Tom Houghton:
Coming soon to Buildertrend, the ability to digitally create this and then physically send it out. Weโre going to partner with somebody [crosstalk].
Nick Schiffer:
Youโre going to have 400 kids writing 170.
Tom Houghton:
Thank you notes today. The product team is going to hate me for [crosstalk 00:14:00].
Paul Wurth:
Our intern programs will be bad, we need more stamps. Sorry for the penmanship, it was a 17 year old.
Tom Houghton:
Speaking of customer experience though, you had a panel yesterday with your co-founder Dan Houghton.
Nick Schiffer:
Oh, thatโs right.
Tom Houghton:
Just a plug, weโre going to have a little snippet of that panel on the podcast. So stay tuned for the next โฆ
Paul Wurth:
This podcast?
Tom Houghton:
Our podcast.
Paul Wurth:
This episode?
Tom Houghton:
Not this episode.
Paul Wurth:
Okay, sorry.
Tom Houghton:
Youโve got to stay tuned.
Paul Wurth:
I got to look at the schedule.
Tom Houghton:
Okay. So weโve got that coming up. So stay tuned to get more of Nick and his expertise on customer experience. But bringing that back around to the customer experience and bring it around to the people of this. We talked a little bit about talent earlier. Youโve got great talent. Youโve got Molly, you got Nick, you got Doug here. Whatโs your advice to those listening on how they can attract top talent?
Paul Wurth:
Attracting top talent.
Nick Schiffer:
Thereโs a lot to it, but simply put, the culture in which you promote. Well, first off it should be real. You shouldnโt be promoting fake culture. And I think thatโs where people are promoting a culture and then living up to a lesser-
Paul Wurth:
Hundred percent.
Nick Schiffer:
โฆ a lesser thing, right? Really understanding what brings people value. Iโm going to talk personally about what we do, right? So one thing I realized is the work-life balance and separating work and life. And I realized that when I had kids and we talked about this recently, one of our episodes is that one thing I implemented is I got rid of my work phone when I get home, my work phone stays in my work bag off. Not on the counter so I walk by and touch the screen to see if I have a notification, off away.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah. We talked about that a little when I was there, that you have two separate phones.
Nick Schiffer:
Yeah. And so that was huge. And that was one of the first steps. And I really told my guys, Iโm like, โEveryone gets a phone allowance because youโre expected to answer the phone when I call or when anyone calls and you all have emails.โ But the phone allowances is to pay for that phone. And if you want a personal phone, I would encourage you to get your own phone.
Paul Wurth:
Yeah, makes sense.
Nick Schiffer:
Separate it. But the culture within the company is that for our time off we take Christmas Eve all the way to New Yearโs Day off.
Paul Wurth:
Yeah mandatory.
Nick Schiffer:
Mandatory, around the week of July 4th.
Nick Schiffer:
And then theyโre accruing vacation on top of it because thatโs time to recharge. It has to be the case. Having the opportunity to do your very best work, but when you mess up itโs all right. But itโs not okay if you keep messing up and doing the same thing, but letโs work through this and figure out why did you mess up? Did we do something wrong? And being okay with the understanding that the investment in those mistakes will net a better result.
Paul Wurth:
Totally.
Nick Schiffer:
But I think really just promoting the positivity behind all of that. There is a lot of negative in this industry. Thereโs a lot of hard things that we deal with. What construction is organization of hundreds of humans with all their baggage and issues to net a product that people expect to be perfect.
Paul Wurth:
Yeah. Thatโs a really good summary of that because itโs-
Nick Schiffer:
First off-
Paul Wurth:
Itโs mission impossible.
Nick Schiffer:
Itโs not going to be perfect. We have a lot of things working against us. Nevermind the human aspect of it. But I really think to summarize a positive, people focused culture is what is really important.
Tom Houghton:
Sure.
Paul Wurth:
And to do that as a business owner, you probably got to have a pretty hard conversation with yourself, a real look.
Nick Schiffer:
Real hard.
Paul Wurth:
What is our culture? What is important to me? What kind of things am I driving by the policies Iโve put in place?
Nick Schiffer:
Really hard. I would say that I take a lot of risk on people, because I seeโฆ Iโm impatient as a person, but I understand that what Iโm doing and what weโre doing as a team isnโt about tomorrow this is longer than that. And some of the team might not have any experience or really struggles with things. But thatโs all right. If youโre driven if youโre going to work towards it, Iโll help. Iโm cool with that. I want to touch on something because recently a gentleman had asked, I think he was a stone fabricator and he has a guy thatโs been with him for 40 years. Really great fabricator, amazing fabricator.
Nick Schiffer:
And heโs got laborers that work in the stone shop as well. And he was talking about those guys they donโt really know whatโsโฆ They canโt really polish stone. Theyโre just laborers. So when when the shopโs clean they send them home and they might not get 40 hours for the week. And then he switches and heโs like, โBut Iโm not really sure what happens when, Dave, when he retires or he quits.โ Are we not making the connection here? The laborer should be working with Dave when heโs done with his job for the two hours, pay him 40 hours and teach him. Youโve spent all that time developing Dave and what youโre not doing is developing someone in the coattails of him to continue that. And thatโs what I think a lot of people forget is they build these companies and they build these teams and these cultures of great people, but what happens when someone transitions into a new role? You canโt just restart and start from zero.
Nick Schiffer:
Then your company is literally restarting. It needs to be a coattail thing. And that is really important.
Paul Wurth:
I think whatโs really great just to make it full circle is sometimes you need another business owner to see your blind spots.
Nick Schiffer:
Absolutely.
Paul Wurth:
And thatโs whatโs great about networking because maybe that seems very obvious to us hearing the story itโs, well, geez.
Nick Schiffer:
Of course.
Paul Wurth:
Come on. But when youโre in the mix and youโre in it, thatโs tough. Thatโs good.
Nick Schiffer:
I think youโre absolutely right and thatโs what I love about networking. But thatโs what I love about even more than networking with builders, networking with people outside of our industry and takingโฆ Whatโs nice about it is itโs almost not directly related. Itโs, โWell, you build specs. And I build custom homes.โ Itโs different. Where itโs, โNo, youโre running an ad agency and Iโm running a construction business, but I can see how that was successful. And Iโm only taking the points of building the culture, not the fact that you build specs for those customers.โ And thatโs whatโs been super interesting for us recently is that weโve taken a lot. Look at Doug.
Tom Houghton:
I know, looks great.
Paul Wurth:
Weโre looking at Doug right now.
Tom Houghton:
Weโre looking at Doug. Hi, Doug.
Nick Schiffer:
But the reason he was even a thought in the beginning is because I was looking at other industries bringing in video to what they do. And Iโm, โAll right, well, I donโt know a construction company that has a videographer, but I really like Doug, and I want him to hang out, so letโs do this.โ
Paul Wurth:
So you were telling that story on our last podcast that-
Nick Schiffer:
He wasnโt full-time.
Paul Wurth:
That youโd been talking to him and he was, โForget it. Weโll figure out how to get you paid and figure it all out.โ Thatโs really cool.
Nick Schiffer:
Yeah, we sat down and I was, Doug, I really likeโฆ He did a video for another builder and it was li,
Tom Houghton:
Ooh, shallow choice, Doug.
Nick Schiffer:
But no, rightfully so.
Paul Wurth:
Thatโs his right.
Nick Schiffer:
And he did a great job. And itโs not that I didnโt like that fact that he did that. His creativity is so in line with who we are and what I see this company doing, is that I want this to be us. And we had multiple conversations. And finally, I was, dude, letโs just figure this out. We were talking yesterday and people always ask, โHow does this work? Howโs this work financially?โ And heโs not going to answer that. And I said to him yesterday, Iโm, I donโt know either.
Nick Schiffer:
And I was , โLet me correct that.โ I do know itโs notโฆ But everyoneโs looking for the ROI. Give me the numbers. And Iโm, thereโs is no numbers. Whatโs the numbers of you spending four hours on Instagram a day? What I see is thereโs value in what he showcases on the team is these guys are now looking at themselves on video and then on the camera and seeing that this is cool, man.
Paul Wurth:
I like to think about that part of it.
Nick Schiffer:
When these guys come on, they feel as though theyโre under a microscope at first, but then they start getting super proud of what they do and canโt wait for it to be showcased. And thatโs what gets them really excited.
Nick Schiffer:
And then itโs, heโs going to be here, I got this new idea and Iโm going to do it on camera.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah.
Nick Schiffer:
And that continues to develop that culture.
Paul Wurth:
I never thought but thatโs awesome.
Tom Houghton:
And the brand that youโre building too, youโre looking for ROI, look no further than the fact that your reach of how people know you and what that looks like.
Nick Schiffer:
Right. Listen, itโs brand awareness. It is educating our consumer as to the value that we bring to them and the processes that we take, itโs developing the culture and then itโs looking at the industry and asking everyone, hey, step your crap up.
Tom Houghton:
Absolutely.
Nick Schiffer:
Weโre not perfect, but weโre chasing it.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah.
Paul Wurth:
Yeah. Thatโs really cool. I love it. Makes sense.
Tom Houghton:
Itโs 2020.
Nick Schiffer:
It is.
Tom Houghton:
Weโre thinking about, whatโs this year look like? Itโs January, still thinking about resolutions, I guess. We talked about, hey, letโs set your business up for success. Maybe find somebody, a partner in crime almost that you could say, โHey, what do I need to work on in my business?โ So whatโs it look like for you? Whatโs 2020 look like for your business? What are you looking forward to?
Nick Schiffer:
I would say continuing to refine the team. One of the guys asked, are we hiring anyone this year? And I quickly said, no. And then they said, are we firing any anyone this year? And I slowly said no.
Paul Wurth:
Whoopsie-daisy.
Nick Schiffer:
And he was, โWait, what?โ No, no. I havenโt thought of that. What I have thought a lot about is that I started my company as a carpentry company. I grew into a remodeling company. The remodeling company is now growing into a general contracting company. The general contracting company became a general contracting and cabinet company. And what I have always wanted to do is build and renovate entire homes, like build brand new homes. And what has been the focus for me is that social media has been great at showcasing who we are with the micro details, but now I need to start stepping back and showcasing that this is part of something bigger. Weโre not just building cabinetry. Weโre not just doing interior trim, weโre building homes. And so this year thereโs going to be a heavy focus on developing the, Iโm using air quotes, the funnel of attracting those right clients, because to be candid thatโs been the biggest struggle.
Nick Schiffer:
Not correcting, but when people see it as a carpentry company, theyโre going to call for carpentry work. And then when we became complacent with that, we shifted into remodeling and then we continued to shift. So we keep getting comfortable and then taking another step up and then weโre redefining our clientele.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah.
Nick Schiffer:
So Iโm hoping that in a way that 2020 is the last, Iโm saying this knowing itโs not true, I was going to say the last change, right? What I look at it is the team and myself weโve put a significant amount of work into what we do. And we want to now focus on bringing on the projects that we are truly passionate about doing.
Paul Wurth:
Thatโs really cool.
Tom Houghton:
I just want to figure out a way to clone you and put one of you in every state. Because I think everybody needs an NS Builders.
Nick Schiffer:
Thatโs an amazing compliment.
Paul Wurth:
Well itโs true. Itโs very refreshing when you talk about the industry, your business, the way you think about it. Honestly to god, itโs super true.
Tom Houghton:
I mean, we talked about this offline, working on projects in our own homes-
Nick Schiffer:
Because weโre best friends.
Tom Houghton:
We are best friends.
Paul Wurth:
How often do you guys talk offline? What is going on?
Tom Houghton:
Will invite you to the next hang out.
Paul Wurth:
You guys are just send thank you notes to each other all day long.
Tom Houghton:
Are you on WhatsApp?
Paul Wurth:
Sorry go ahead.
Tom Houghton:
Itโs okay. So the level of detail you put into your projects shows that itโs possible to do it. I think itโs so quickly that we all just write off, itโs construction. It doesnโt have to be perfect science.
Nick Schiffer:
Right.
Tom Houghton:
And thereโs no such thing as absolutely being a hundred percent perfect, but we can strive for that and thatโs whatโs so great to see as you strive for excellence and see you deliver that excellent product to your customers.
Nick Schiffer:
Thatโs what people trip up on is that weโre not perfect. And those guys that are significantly better than us, right? But as individuals, all Iโm asking is that youโre giving all of the effort, a hundred percent effort into it. And Iโll ask that straight up and Iโll look to them, โHey, is could you have done that better? Yeah? Okay, then do it again.โ If thatโs the best you can do, then listen, thatโs all Iโm going to ask, but I need you to do the best that you can do every time because youโre going to incrementally get better if youโre doing that.โ
Tom Houghton:
Absolutely.
Nick Schiffer:
I think the complacency in this industry, I think itโs shrinking, which is nice. But I think for a long time it was, everyone was in their bubble, so it was easy to be complacent. Thereโs a lot of disruptions now.
Paul Wurth:
You put some light on stuff. Itโs oh, okay.
Nick Schiffer:
Thereโs a lot of things being showcased that are kind of weeding that stuff out.
Paul Wurth:
Yeah.
Tom Houghton:
Sure.
Paul Wurth:
Which has been great.
Nick Schiffer:
You just talked about how you can get comfortable in doing what youโre doing and then you got to shake it up. So that way youโre making sure youโre delivering the right thing for your clients.
Paul Wurth:
You told a story last time about having to rip out an entire kitchen, have you done that yet?
Nick Schiffer:
I did rip it out.
Paul Wurth:
Right, yeah. I know you had said you were going to, but yeah. So now itโs over.
Nick Schiffer:
Man, I forgot that I hadnโt done it yet. So yes.
Paul Wurth:
And it wasnโt perfect, but it was good enough.
Nick Schiffer:
All right. So I talked about this yesterday at a talk and I had never done the math until I put together this PowerPoint.
Tom Houghton:
Hey, there you go.
Nick Schiffer:
And come to find out, we had lost, it was a $170,000 job and it costs me $45,000 to redo that, out of pocket.
Nick Schiffer:
So we werenโt making 45 grand on this job. So that was a big red. But yeah it was basically up on one of those slides I had said, you have a few options. You could have fixed it, and it would have been passable and the client would have been okay with it and kind of call the spade a spade. And we probably wouldnโt have got a negative review from it, it probably wouldโve been pretty neutral. And we would have walked away, no pictures and been okay. But what does that say to us? And what does that say to my guys? Itโs well, he let that slide, so weโll just let this slide and then I dig into, itโs a slippery slope to mediocrity.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah.
Nick Schiffer:
And I never set out to be mediocre at anything. Thatโs not my style. If Iโm going to do something I want to do it as best as I can. You know? And that was ultimately the decision. We never even thought about the money behind it, beyond the fact that we canโt afford to do it right now. Letโs squeeze this in incrementally. Letโs squeeze this in over time and figure out when this will actually work for our schedule and for us financially.
Paul Wurth:
When you talk about that, Iโm not a business owner, but Iโve been really close to this business since the beginning. And Iโve talked to enough business owners. I really like your honesty about financial decisions. It sounds sometimes like if thereโs this pot of money, Iโm sure people listen like, โWell, yeah, if I had a pot of money, Iโd fix everything.โ
Nick Schiffer:
All right. So that came up.
Paul Wurth:
Bur youโre really real about it. Youโre, Iโm going to fix it at some point.
Nick Schiffer:
So that came up and someone was like, โOkay, whatever, obviously you can afford to do it.โ Iโm like, โno, no, itโs not that we could afford to do it.โ All right, let me put this in a different way. If you canโt afford to do it, then letโs figure out, communicate to the client that youโll be youโll be back to do this when you can.
Paul Wurth:
Thatโs what I mean. Weโre all human and I guarantee that connected with your clients, no matter what.
Nick Schiffer:
Yeah. At the end of the day we replaced it. We actually gave them a better product than we originally planned because we were, listen, letโs just pull out all the tricks now. And we ended up delivering a product that they were incredibly happy with, that they now referred us. The architect pulled us aside and said, โListen, you didnโt have to do that. I donโt know anyone that would have done that. This says a lot about you guys.โ And then on top of that, we filmed it. We filmed ripping it out and I posted it on social media and we talked about it. And then I got a phone call the next day and he was like, โHey, you donโt know who I am. My nameโs Jim. I just saw the video you posted. This is insane. Iโve known guys that rip out their work. You just told the entire world that you screwed something up and then you spent the money to film it, edit it and put it on social media and put yourself on blast.โ
Nick Schiffer:
And I laughed. And we ended up chatting for a while, but I was, thatโs a big question that homeowners have. Itโs, well, what happens if this goes wrong?
Tom Houghton:
Yeah.
Nick Schiffer:
What if this job goes sideways? What kind of person are you? And hereโs your answer.
Paul Wurth:
And now you have evidence to show them or at least speak to. Thatโs cool.
Tom Houghton:
Thatโs good stuff. We can talk for hours.
Paul Wurth:
Just you and him or all three of us. Because whatโs going on here? I know you guys are friends.
Tom Houghton:
Youโre just going to milk that joke.
Paul Wurth:
Itโs not a joke at this point. Now it really hurts.
Tom Houghton:
Okay. Well, weโre going to go fix this offline with Paul. Weโre going to have a little kumbaya session. Nick, thanks so much for coming on the podcast.
Nick Schiffer:
I really appreciate it guys.
Tom Houghton:
We love having you here. Weโd love to have you back again some time. Weโll figure out a time to get you back on so we can talk some more about Buildertrend and-
Nick Schiffer:
I think Iโll see you guys in March.
Paul Wurth:
Cool.
Nick Schiffer:
BTU.
Paul Wurth:
Youโre coming again?
Nick Schiffer:
Bringing a couple of new guys. Well, not new guys, new guys to BTU.
Tom Houghton:
Okay.
Paul Wurth:
Thatโd be awesome.
Nick Schiffer:
So Iโll see you then.
Tom Houghton:
Stay tuned.
Paul Wurth:
Weโll go out of the town.
Tom Houghton:
Thatโs right.
Paul Wurth:
Or maybe you guys will.
Tom Houghton:
You can come too, Paul.
Paul Wurth:
All right, cool.
Nick Schiffer:
I appreciate you guys. Thanks.
Tom Houghton:
Thank you.
Tom Houghton:
Love what you heard? Donโt forget rate and subscribe to our podcast so you can hear from more guests that will benefit your business. Also, please check out our show notes page for more information on what we discussed on this episode, you can find it at buildertrend.com/podcast. Thanks for listening. And weโll see you next time on โThe Building Code.โ Appreciate you.
Nick Schiffer | NS Builders
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