The Building Code Takeover: A conversation on leadership with Dan Houghton and Frank Blake

Dan Houghton:

Hey everyone, Dan Houghton here, co-founder and CEO with Buildertrend. I am so excited about today’s Building Code Takeover. I’m going to be with you for the next couple of podcasts. Today, I’ve got Frank Blake, general manager of The Home Depot Pro Xtra, has an amazing background. One that’s a lot deeper and stronger than mine was, is a vet, was a captain in the U.S. Army, won a Bronze Star Medal, which is, from my point of view, one of the coolest things possible. So, I want to dig into a little bit of that, and I’m sure like any military officer or anybody that’s served in our military, there is a sense of always so humble talking about themselves, but I do want to dig into that and talk a little bit about your experience in the U.S. Army, if possible. So, I am just pumped about today’s call. We’ve had a great relationship with Home Depot. We’ve known the folks at The Home Depot for years, from all different parts of the organization and excited to have Frank here. So, Frank, tell us a little about yourself.

Frank Blake:

Thanks, Dan. Super excited to be back on the show. I know I was a little nervous about my last appearance on “The Building Code” podcast because I referenced the carpool karaoke. And I thought either that was going to get me not invited back or picked up on the side of the road to sing some songs, to the fact that I’m back, I think is a good sign. And so, I feel good about that. And look, I think I just begin by telling you, Dan, as the leader and all of your customers and listeners out there, I think a good place to start is I’m a huge fan, huge fan. And I think just to be clear, A, I’m a huge fan of your software. So, clearly you guys have built an amazing tool in Buildertrend. I am notoriously tech averse. I’m allergic to all kinds of technology.

I’m a paper and pencil kind of old school guy, but if I can use Buildertrend, if I can benefit from the software and if it makes sense to me, I think that’s a huge sign. So just saying, A, I’m a huge fan of the software that you guys are putting out in the marketplace for your customers and for our customers, anytime I’ve interacted with anybody from Buildertrend, I’ve just been super impressed. And so, you guys have awesome people, awesome culture and an awesome organization. So, I’m a really big fan, not just of the software, but of your organization. And then lastly, and maybe most importantly, I’m a huge fan of the show. So, I love the show, long time listener, believe it or not. I think, I calculated the other day, I’ve listened to over a hundred episodes of the show.

Dan Houghton:

Awesome. Awesome. Appreciate it. So, you’re a super fan of the podcast. We love that. So, I feel like we need to get you on our PR team. I like the way you’re talking. So, what I’m excited about today, Frank, honestly is you’ve got an amazing background. I work and I have the opportunity to lead a company that’s got roughly 850 employees. You work at one of the biggest companies in the United States, if not the world. And we’re going to talk a little about leadership, and I’ve always, you know from my background, I’ve always had a hard time being kind of standing on a soap box and talking about leadership because it doesn’t come natural. I think I’m a natural leader, but it doesn’t come natural to me to talk about why it comes natural to me.

But I would love to hear a little bit about, like I said, your background, how you think about leadership in an organization of your size. And then you’re working with all these contractors all over the country and throughout the world. Talk a little bit about how you see leadership within that industry and one of the things I want to get out of today if possible is we work for these big organizations, but how do you become a great leader of a company that’s got maybe 3, 5, 10, 15, 35 employees, and how do you stand tall and lead your company through really hard times and challenging times, but also really celebrate the good times as well?

Frank Blake:

Yeah. Well look, thanks Dan. And I think just a little bit of background. I’d begin by saying, I am super excited for the Building Better Summit that’s coming up and to be asked to participate. I was just incredibly flattered. And just to tell you the story behind it, I got the email saying, hey, would you like to participate in the Building Better Summit? And I thought you just meant like being in the audience. And I was really excited. I’m like, man, this is great. I get to be in the audience for the summit. And this was like a dream come true to be invited to speak. But then I started thinking. I said, okay, well, so what am I going to talk about? I mean, what can I do that would add value to your contracting and building customers out there?

And so, I started making the list and I said, well, I could talk about how much I love Buildertrend. I mean, I’ve already said it a little bit today, and hopefully you can hear it in my voice, the passion that I have for your organization. So, could’ve talked about that. Could’ve talked about how much I love Nebraska. So, I have a soft spot in my heart for Nebraska. If you didn’t know, I was fortunate enough to be a part of the team that helped open The Home Depot store in Scottsbluff, Neb. back in 2007. So, had a really nice time opening up a store there in Scottsbluff, Neb. So, could have talked about that, but naw, I don’t know, maybe. And then I thought about Pro Xtra. And I thought, look, there’s so many things that are cool about The Home Depot loyalty platform for pros, Pro Xtra, maybe I could take some time talking about that.

But then I took a step back and I said, look, if I really have the opportunity to be on a stage to talk about any subject that is important to me and may be beneficial to your customers, well, then I’m going to talk about leadership. And I know that’s maybe not something that everybody would have thought of, or maybe not something that was top of mind, given all the other things that are happening in our industry. But the truth is, Dan, I’ve been a student of leadership my whole life. So, I went to a military high school in Albany, New York, Albany Academy if you’re out there listening, go cadets. So, went to a military high school growing up, went to college at Clemson University in South Carolina and was on a ROTC scholarship.

So, did a lot of leadership training and thoughts around leadership. Then joined the Army and between all of those experiences and then at The Home Depot, I’ll tell you, I have read every book there is on leadership. I’ve taken lots of classes on it. And it’s something that I just feel like is incredibly important for all business leaders of which all of your customers are. And so, given the opportunity to talk about any subject then I wanted to take a minute and talk about leadership, and I promise you if you’re out there listening for the Building Better Summit, I will bring my A game, and you are going to get the best of what I can offer to help think through some transformative leadership thoughts.

I will do my best not to duplicate any of them here on your show, but I have seen firsthand the difference that a leader can make in an organization and happy to get into that if we want, but I’m a believer in the power of leadership, and I’m a believer in the power that it can bring to any organization. And so, I think that for your customers out there, most of whom are leaders of their own businesses and have their own amazing entrepreneurial startup stories, there are a lot of things that we need to talk about, but leadership for me is at the top of the list, so.

Dan Houghton:

Love it, makes sense. So, the first question I have is I remember being 14, and I was not a very good student. And if my parents could have sent me to military school, they probably would have, but they didn’t. Were you pushed into it or was that your idea when you were 12, 13 …

Frank Blake:

It’s a great question. I’m not going to pretend that I was a great student or without the rough edges of my own personality, but this was not a disciplinary thing for me. So, I wasn’t sent to the military school because of some behavioral issues. At least that’s what I was told. I mean, I’d have to go back and actually ask some harder questions, but no. I mean, it was a leadership laboratory for young men and we learned great lessons on how to be good followers first and how to take direction and follow strong leaders. And then throughout the years, then at the end, you find yourself in a leadership position. And I thought it was a really great way to flex some leadership muscles that have served me really well throughout my career. And so, excited for my big reunion this fall back at school for the first time. But yeah, I mean, leadership is important, and in my opinion, I don’t think it’s something that we talk enough about as a world.

Dan Houghton:

Yep. Do you remember the first time you really thought of yourself as a leader, whether you were a teenager or once you graduated from high school, but once you actually … either someone said it to you off the cuff or an instructor or a teacher, or you just felt it internally with your peers?

Frank Blake:

Yeah. It’s a great question. And I mean, I might turn it around on you and ask you the same thing here in a minute, but I’ll tell you, one thing that I believe in is that you can learn something powerful from every leader that you have. And sometimes you learn about how you want to run an organization like, wow, that person’s doing a really great job. I would really love to incorporate some of those thoughts when I’m in charge. And sometimes, you learn what not to do because you see people doing things and say, well, if I ever get a chance, I’m not going to do it like that. So, I’m a big believer that you’ve picked something up from everybody along the way. And I’ve had a great fortune in my career at Home Depot to work for some really world-class leaders like Shane O’Kelly, Hector Padilla, Bill Lennie, Chris Waits, Hayden Choke.

We have some world-class leaders at The Home Depot, and I’ve been fortunate to learn from all of them along the way. But I think, to answer your question, what really stands out in my mind were those moments throughout my career, whether it was a military school serving overseas in Iraq or at The Home Depot where a leader put their arm around me and said, look, you’re going to be next and you’re going to be up next. And so, start thinking about how you would run this organization and start thinking about what you would do if you were the leader. And to me, those have really been some of the most important and transformational moments, but Dan, I turned it back on you because I don’t want this to all be about me. I mean, I think there are probably a lot of people out there that are interested in your background as leader and thinking when was that moment for you when you were like, okay, I’m going to be in charge here and what am I going to do?

Dan Houghton:

Yeah, it’s interesting. I ask that question a lot because I do think there’re these moments in people’s lives that trigger things and trigger responses and change a way of thinking for a lot of people. And all it is, is words, right? And so, I say this to a lot of other leaders, your words count, your words matter because what you say, people will remember. And so, for me, I think it goes back to probably when I was about 16 years old. I was never a great student, but I had a few coaches and one coach in particular who was very supportive of me, and I was not doing my best or performing my best, or I was just being a silly 16-year-old when he pulled me aside. He’s like, people are looking at you. People are watching you, people are following you, you’re a leader. So, stand a little taller. And that always resonated with me.

And I’ll be honest with you that, when you’re younger you go through these peaks and valleys. And I think that also happens to folks in their careers. And you think about … life is messy. Even if you’re the leader, even if you’re the CEO, even if you’re in charge, doesn’t mean you’re perfect. And I think showing some sense of, I get that. I’m not perfect. I don’t expect perfection from you, maybe has always been something that’s kind of stuck with me, and I call it maybe an empathetic approach to leadership. But one of the things you said that I always think about is if you ever get a chance, I won’t do that. So, you’ve had a bad leader.

You worked for a boss or you’ve had someone especially within our customers, a lot of our customers are entrepreneurs who worked for someone else and said, you know what, I’m going to hang my own hat. I’m going to go do something on my own. And a lot of that is, if I ever get my own chance, I won’t do that. Was there ever a moment for you? And this is a question I can actually answer, is where I find myself kind of giving myself a gut check on that. Maybe that if you ever get a chance, I won’t do that. Happened 20 years ago. And how do you keep yourself in line as you think about leadership and moving forward?

Frank Blake:

Yeah. Look, it’s a great question. And I might answer it just slightly differently if that’s okay. But for me, my transformational moment, and really when I became a believer in the power of leadership, happened during my time in the Army when we were overseas deployed in Iraq. And I was part of the fourth infantry division. So, infantry unit overseas in Iraq, and we had a leader at the time. Very nice guy, perfectly capable, nothing wrong with him. And by every stretch of measurement from a leadership standpoint, you would say this gentlemen was fine. I mean, there were no major issues with his style necessarily, but halfway through our tour overseas, his time was over. So, he left, and we got a new leader and keep in mind Dan, nothing else changed. So, the environment didn’t change, mission didn’t change, the team members didn’t change, the resources didn’t change, nothing, not a single thing changed except for the person in charge.

And when I tell you the results were transformative as a result of that leadership change, I cannot tell you the impact that it made on me as a young leader. And so, now imagine now we have a new leader, nothing else has changed, but all of a sudden the dynamic goes from what was a one plus one equals two, to now we have a leader who is focused on the steps that it takes to build a high-performance team. And now, we go to one plus one equals three or four or five. And as a result of that, you mentioned that I was awarded the Bronze Star, I can tell you that story, but as a result of that, things have to happen that would’ve never happened before.

And for any of your listeners and customers that are out there, if you’ve ever been a part of a high-performance team, whether it was in high school or on a sports team or in a community or something, if you’ve been a part of a high-performance team where you really have that one plus one equals a heck of a lot more than two, man, it’s addictive. It’s like the most addictive feeling that’s out there. And so, to answer your question of, was there something that I saw that I wouldn’t want to do and learn from those mistakes? The big takeaway for me that I have had for the rest of my life was that by changing nothing other than a leader who really knew how to invest in a high-performance team, our results became exponentially better.

And so, not that I wouldn’t have done things the way that the other guy did, but our new leader really hammered home the difference that it can make. And so, the other point that I think I would offer on that and maybe get your perspective on is, I was watching the whole thing, and I was watching the whole leadership transformation occur, and it has stuck with me my whole life, and what I keep in mind now to your point is that people are watching me, and people are watching you, and our words make a difference, our actions make a difference. And you know what, I’m a firm believer that our leadership makes a difference, too.

Dan Houghton:

Yeah. So, was there’s one thing, and I’ve been in your shoes where you see someone in action, and you get to experience something that’s more than just status quo. Was there one thing that stood out to you about that transformational experience with that leader in Iraq that comes in that you just said, wow, like almost felt like a no-brainer, but it was just so, so appropriate and so well timed for your team?

Frank Blake:

Yeah, absolutely. And I’m going to shamelessly plug episode number one of this podcast where you guys hold the origin story for Buildertrend, but one of the quotes that you said, Dan, was that as a leader and an organization that we had to, and you had to “get out of your own way.” And I think a lot of great leadership is that humility or that empathy, or that understanding to be able to get out of your own way and allow the organization to achieve what it can and really unlock the potential of the discretionary effort.

So, how do we unleash the discretionary effort of the team? And the one thing that really stood out to me watching a leadership transition, and this is for all your listeners out there now is, as a leader, one takeaway is your team doesn’t care how much you know, and sometimes people are so wrapped up there in their own way around showing how smart they are and showing how good they are at the trade and showing how they know so many facts and knowledge around the industry, but your team doesn’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.

And if you can show that empathy, if you can show the caring for your team, if you can show the love and passion for them as individuals and for the team performance, your team doesn’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care. And I think that’s one thing that has always stood out for me.

Dan Houghton:

Yeah. I love those comments. And one of the things I’ve experienced being in this industry for 15 years and talking to our customers, we’ve got roughly twenty-five thousand customers globally now, which is just bizarre and crazy and humbling, but, we have Buildertrend University, and people will always come. It’s like, we love your culture, but you’re tech, or you’re a Fortune 100, or you’re a Fortune 500, if you’re The Home Depot. You can invest in culture. You can invest in the things that you’re talking about. How do I do it as a company that’s doing a million dollars a year in revenue, and I’m just kind of chasing my tail constantly. How do I step outside and start working on the business versus working in the business and becoming a better leader? Any thoughts or suggestions around that?

Frank Blake:

Yeah. I mean, look, it’s a great question. And to me, it also goes back to getting out of your own way, because sometimes as leaders in whatever area of our life, we’re so focused on the strategy or the what we’re going to do, that we failed to take a minute to think about the how we do it or the why we do it, and like what our values are for our organization. And one reason why I really believe in the partnership between The Home Depot and Buildertrend is because we are both values-based organizations, and we both have incredibly strong culture. And if it’s okay, I also just have to thank you personally for a component of your businesses culture, which is, and I don’t know what I can say on this podcast or not, but I’m just going to call it the no a-hole policy.

Right. And so, just a side personal note, I was celebrating Easter not long ago with our family and my sister was there. And as siblings do, we start talking and at one point she said, Frank, and I don’t remember what we were talking about, what she was saying. She just kept talking. But at one point she said, Frank, you’re a real a-hole. And I said, well, actually, Maggie, that is not true. That cannot be true because I’ll be on the Buildertrend podcast here soon. And they have an explicit no a-hole policy. So, if that were true, I wouldn’t be on their show. So, I just want to say thank you for having that policy because it allows me to really feel like I’m not an a-hole.

Dan Houghton:

That’s right. Especially when you’re talking to a sibling on a holiday because that can never happen. You can never go outside of …

Frank Blake:

I know too much about that.

Dan Houghton:

I’ve never heard that in my family. So, I always said there’s a temporary and a permanent, so temporary you can solve, right. So, that’s fantastic. One of my favorite things about The Home Depot, which I don’t know if many of our listeners know this, how many employees does The Home Depot have, Frank?

Frank Blake:

We’re over 500,000,

Dan Houghton:

Over 500,000, which makes you a top 10 employer in the United States?

Frank Blake:

For sure.

Dan Houghton:

Yeah. Which is pretty incredible. And so one of my first, yeah … OK. So, I’m a tech CEO the first time I walked into The Home Depot headquarters. I think we maybe had 350 employees. Some people know who we are, but not everybody knows who we are. And I had the opportunity to meet with the CEO and a lot of the different leaders within the organization and it was, I’ll be honest with you, it was super, super intimidating walking in the doors, but the level of comfort I had as the day went on was incredible. And the thing that I love about The Home Depot is if you work in corporate, and you’re a leader within the organization or anyone, a lot of these folks started their careers, not joking, when they’re 16 years old sweeping floors at the store that you go pick up all your supplies at. And if you’re in corporate, you’re wearing an apron.

So, you walk into a meeting and you could have the title of CEO. You could have the title of senior vice president, whatever it might be, and you’re wearing the same apron that you’d wear in the store. And I just found that to be, I think for me, maybe more comforting than anything else as a guest to The Home Depot is saying, I’m a human. I started in the store. I might be working on the top floor of this organization today, but I love that driver of culture of saying, we are one family, and you see folks at the organization start from ground up and work their way up in the organization. What other things about a company that’s got 500,000 employees you think is that The Home Depot is really excelled in that is relatable to all organizations?

Frank Blake:

Sure. Well, first and foremost is having a way to communicate our values to folks that we may never meet. Right? So, our founders, at one point, we were opening a brand new Home Depot, every 48 hours or less. And so, they realized, we’re bringing these massive businesses online, tens of millions of dollars each, every 48 hours. We will never be able to anymore touch and meet and personally communicate why The Home Depot is special to every single associate. So, we have to come up with a way to communicate our values to folks that we may never meet. And that’s The Home Depot’s value wheel that shows all eight of our core values. Every associate has it right on the front of their apron. It’s in every conference room, in the store support center in Atlanta, and it’s in every store across the country.

And so, number one, being able to communicate that culture quickly, succinctly and broadly to everybody, I think, is something that we have really excelled at. And then the other thing, especially as you get bigger and bigger and bigger, and look, you guys are going through this as well is, how do you stay as close to your customer as possible? And I think one that makes The Home Depot unique is the way we think about servant leadership. And we call that the inverted pyramid and with the inverted pyramid is our graphical and visual representation of servant leadership. To say that you know who’s really in charge of our company? It’s the customers. The customers pay the bills, and we’re all here working for the customers. And the closer you are to the customer, the more important you are in the organization, whether you’re an associate in one of our stores or a sales representative, you name it. The closer you are to a customer, the more important you are in our organization, and I think communicating that is something that we’ve done really well, and I think that’s what makes us special.

Dan Houghton:

So, it’s funny when we started this company, we had rapid growth kind of out of the gate. Then we slowed down. We grew a little bit more, and I always thought that stuff was cheesy, honestly, when we were a small company. And I looked at our customers, I’ve talked to some of our customers about this, but one of the biggest things that we did was define who we are, defining a mission, defining your core values. And I look back and as we think about who’s listening right now, I would be inclined to say, do it now, even if you’re a husband-wife team, do it now. Define who you are, define how you operate because when it gets hard, it’s very easy to lean back on your core values on how we operate, how we do things, how we treat our customers. And I’m not seeing enough companies, especially our customers do that today. Any thoughts about how they could get started with that?

Frank Blake:

Totally. So, I think you hit the nail on the head and if I were out there listening right now, I think, defining your organizational values and what you stand for and what makes you different, it’s kind of like planting a tree, right? And the best time to have planted a tree is yesterday. And if not yesterday, then the next best time is today, right? But it’s not something that you should put off. And I think that your listeners and customers and my customers and our joint customers, they are busy. I mean, one thing that defines being a contractor or a builder or in construction is, it’s busy and it’s easy to get swept up in the fire that has to be put out today and the thing that needs your attention right away. But you can’t let the urgent take control of the important and defining your values as a person and an organization are, in my mind, incredibly important. And so my advice would be, look, just start today because it’s better than waiting.

Dan Houghton:

Good stuff, good stuff. So, we are running up against time here. I want you to share a couple of things with our listeners, because I always like to ask, what is your favorite lesson you’ve learned? If there’s one thing you can lean on, one thing, whether it’s a book or something maybe your parents told you or a pastor or whatever it might be, what is the one lesson that you learned that you would share?

Frank Blake:

This is a great. Gosh, you get some good questions on the show, Dan, I’ll tell you that. And I have an easy answer for you. And this is a piece of advice that I think has served me very well in the last year, which has been crazy for all of us. It’s served our team really well. And I think for your listeners out there, it’s something that is important to think about. And that is probably not what you think I’m going to say. So, when you think leadership advice, it could be a book, it could be a podcast, it could be a class, et cetera. But instead again, I’m going to go back to what you said on episode one, which is about getting out of your own way. And I’m going to share the advice that someone gave me a long time ago, that the positions that your customers are in will take every ounce of energy that they have.

If you’re an owner of a construction business, it will take every drop of energy you have and then some. And you can be pouring yourself into that job and all it will do is ask for more. And so, therefore, an incredibly important thing to be able to do as leaders, is to remember that you cannot pour from an empty cup. And if you don’t know how to recharge yourself, if you don’t know how to recharge your own mental battery and come back in on Monday ready to fight the fight, recharge and energize about what you’re doing, if you don’t know how to recharge yourself, you’re going to end up burning out. And when the leader burns out only bad things happen.

And so, my parting advice would be, you cannot pour from an empty cup. You’ve got to take care of yourself. You’ve got to get out of your own way and make sure that you’re doing what it takes to be energized about your business and customers every day. And if you do that, as we say at The Home Depot, if we take care of the customers and we take care of each other, then the rest is going to take care of itself.

Dan Houghton:

I’m fired up. I see the producers across from me. They’re all shaking their head, yeah. So, that means you … it resonates. It makes a lot of sense. We are so excited to have you on “The Building Code” today and being part of our Summit. It’s going to be an awesome experience. I know, I think we already have like a thousand plus attendees signed up right out of the gate. And so, this thing’s going to be huge. Our customers, your customers are yearning for better ways of operating their business, and Frank Blake from The Home Depot, you’re the man. Appreciate it. It’s been great.

Frank Blake:

It’s been a pleasure, Dan. Thanks so much.

Dan Houghton:

Alright. Thank you.