Solid foundations: How to boost profits with smart construction accounting

Charley Burtwistle (00:05):

What is up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of “The Building Code.” I’m your host, Charley Burtwistle once again solo, but that’s okay. Courtney will be back soon. I am sure of it.

(00:17):

Today, we have Jason Kruger, founder and president of Signature Analytics. I was super excited when I saw his name pop up on our schedule today. For those of you who don’t know, my background here at Buildertrend is in data science. So, anytime I see analytics on the question sheet I get extremely fired up to come into the podcast studio and talk to them. So, super excited to talk to Jason. As I mentioned, founder and president at Signature Analytics, they are in accounting services. We’re going to talk a little bit about what financial metrics you should be tracking, some processes that you can implement into your business to track those better and make more data-driven, informed decisions at the end of the day ultimately be more effective and make more money, which is something that we all want to do. So, I will stop talking and let’s hear it from Jason to tell us a little bit more about his services and how they can be applicable to businesses across the country.

(01:07):

Hey Jason, welcome to “The Building Code.” Appreciate you making the time today. How’s it going?

Jason Kruger (01:13):

Good, thanks Charley. Glad to be on.

Charley Burtwistle (01:15):

Yeah, super, super excited to have you on. We always like to start these things off with just a little quick introduction. If you could tell us a little bit about Signature Analytics and kind of your background and accounting and how it came to be where we are today.

Jason Kruger (01:28):

Yeah, absolutely. So, the company is Signature Analytics. My background personally, as we will find out very shortly, is in accounting and finance. And so, I spent a lot of years in public accounting with some of the larger firms nationally, most of the time was with Deloitte in one of the West Coast offices and spent close to 10 years there. And I got exposure to all different types of industries, all different types of people, all different types of companies, construction being one of them. And so, really started to build a strong foundation in that space, in that industry.

(02:09):

Fast-forward toward the end of my 10-year run in public accounting, and I just saw a lot of, worked with a lot of companies that what I would say would deserve better than what they had as it related to the accounting and finance function of their business and a lot of the back-office functionality. And so, what I mean by that is when companies are smaller, they can get away with having the bookkeeper on board, making sure that they’re paying bills, making sure invoices are going out, making sure you’re collecting, have enough for payroll and then filing your tax at the end of the year.

(02:46):

But as companies grow, the more complexity starts to come into play. And so, companies start to realize that instead of treating accounting and finance as necessary evil, they need to shift that mindset to see, “Okay, how can I leverage that function to drive value into my business?” And so, that’s where we come in and that’s where Signature Analytics comes in is we work with companies that they don’t need a full-time CFO, they don’t need a full-time controller, but they need that financial and accounting leadership to either take over everything but in most cases work with their existing team to provide that support or that flexibility, scalability as they grow. To ensure that they have good information, they’re getting a good understanding of job profitability, they have confidence in their WIP reporting, they have a confidence in cash flows of the business, which is critical for every business as they grow. And then, ultimately, as they continue to grow, bonding, lines of credit, banking relationships, those types of things are critical. And without good financial infrastructure, it’s very difficult to get to that point.

(03:59):

So, we’re really working with companies that they’ve gotten beyond the base level of success and now they’re ready to take that next step, and we give that flexible, scalable option to do that without having to incur the cost of full-time employees and everything that goes along with that.

Charley Burtwistle (04:17):

Yeah, I love that. I think we’ve had a lot of different guests on here, and it’s always funny the different backgrounds that people have when they get into construction. Kind of two opposite extremes is they either business that their grandpa founded and then his dad took over, and they take over, and it’s always kind of been steady state there. And they do construction really, really well and know how to build houses, which is an extremely difficult skillset to have and have never really thought about the business side of things. What can we be doing better from a financial standpoint? And then the opposite end of things is you have people that come from a business background and see the opportunity to get into a very lucrative cash market in construction, don’t know how to build a home, but are very, very solid in the back office.

(05:03):

So, people like you I find really, really interesting to talk to where you work with the people that have the extremely valuable skill set of building homes and kind of show there is a better way out there to be more profitable, make more money, all the things that you alluded to before. So, I’m super excited to get into the weeds today. I’d love to hear just a little bit more about your transition from Deloitte to founding Signature Analytics. You mentioned you’d worked with some construction businesses before. Did you just see the opportunity and see the need or what kind of drove you specifically to dialing in on the construction vertical?

Jason Kruger (05:38):

Yeah. We do work with other industries. Construction is definitely a core vertical for us, but we do work with other industries as well. But from a construction perspective in general, I think like you said, Charley, I think you said it really well, is that business owners in the construction space they know how to build the house, they know how everything works. The general contractors, they have that expertise. They came from another firm where that’s what they did. They grew up doing that. But in a lot of cases they didn’t have the opportunity, or they didn’t have to touch the financial side of the business or other aspects of the business.

(06:24):

And so, you go from being a builder and having one role within a firm to now I have to actually be a business owner and not only do I have to do what I was doing before, but I have to hire employees, I have to make sure I set up payroll the right way and pay them effectively. I have to make sure I’m invoicing and collecting and can actually pay my people. And so, all of that additional work that needs to be done is brand new to these business owners. And so, that’s where the real value I think that I identified is if we can provide that confidence, one, that the business is getting as comfort, that invoices are going out, bills are being paid, and there’s right oversight of that, so they’re being done appropriately. Cash is being managed effectively. So, that business owner can sleep at night and can work on looking forward in their business and then giving them confidence that on a consistent basis they’re getting good reporting that they can leverage to make decisions off of.

(07:37):

Margins are thin in construction, traditionally, and so, there is though still opportunity to capture margin in different ways if you just had the information to be able to understand what that looks like. So, the WIP report, obviously, is critical in construction, gives you a snapshot of what’s happening. But we have within our team, and I’m by no means the level of expert that some of the members of our team are that have spent 15, 20 years in the industry, we typically find a lot of opportunity pretty quickly to find some extra margin in some areas that provides value to these companies.

(08:19):

And so, that’s what we just love to do is talk to business owners, help to educate them. Business owners that want to be educated, that want to grow and that have aspirations to continue to build their business.

Charley Burtwistle (08:30):

Yeah, I mean that’s awesome. I think that you hit on a couple things there that I want to dive into a bit more. But first, construction is just so nuanced as opposed to any other industry when it comes from a cash perspective. And I think that that’s where you’re hitting on a little bit is it’s really difficult and not as copy and paste to some of the other verticals out there when it comes to accounting principles. But I was wondering if you could speak to that just a bit more, why accounting is particularly really important in the construction industry.

Jason Kruger (09:02):

Yeah, you’re right. What I like to say is accounting’s the same across the board. 95% of accounting is the same and then 5% is the industry expertise. But with construction, actually I think the industry expertise is even more important. So, maybe it’s 10%, 15% or 20% is expertise and the rest is accounting. And so, there are definitely nuances within that space that are critical for us, which is why we have a team that focuses specifically on that industry. And so, when we do that, we’re really digging into the core of the business and like we said before, I talked about before, which is the WIP report.

(09:55):

I mean, there’s a couple of things that we want to make sure we do up front. One is understanding cash flows, right? Because in construction the lag time can be long. A lot of times it’s like, “Well, I’ll get paid when I get paid from my guy.” And so, then if you’re third or fourth in line, you may not be getting paid for quite a while. So, let’s understand cash flows and the flow of cash and let’s understand what our terms are and is there opportunities to tighten up that cash cycle because that can drag on and on and on. It’s the only industry I know where it’s like, “Well, I’ll pay you when I get paid.” And other industries, they don’t care. It’s like, “Hey, I don’t care if you got paid or not, you got to pay me.” But construction, it’s just well-known that, “Hey, I’ll pay you when I get paid.” And so, how do we tighten that up is core.

(10:49):

Having a confidence in your WIP schedule is critical. That’s typically something that companies are fairly good at because they’ve always had to do that. But I’ve also seen companies that don’t have a WIP schedule in place at all, and so, they’re really running blind, or they’re manually trying to track things in a certain way. But that gives you that snapshot of what’s happening in your business, which is critical. And really understanding it, again, the nuances and the margins of each job and what’s driving success or lack of success in these jobs, so that you can make a decision and pivot very quickly. If you’re getting WIP reporting a month or two or three months after the fact, you don’t have the opportunity to pivot when a job might be going sideways. We want to get that information as soon as possible as real-time as possible, and definitely, hopefully more than once a month even depending on the types of jobs that you have.

Charley Burtwistle (11:55):

Yeah, I’d love actually, you’ve alluded to the WIP reporting a few different times now. We kind of refer to it around here as kind of the backbone of all your financial reporting inside of Buildertrend. It’s a feature that we have inside of our product as well, too. Could you expand just a bit more maybe if people aren’t as familiar with that, of just what WIP reporting is and how to set that up for their business?

Jason Kruger (12:16):

Yeah, sure. In its simplest form, it’s a snapshot of all of your ongoing jobs on one sheet. So, you have your jobs going down the left-hand column, and then you have a snapshot of what the budget or the expectation of costs are on those jobs. Where you are from a cost to complete or a percentage to complete basis, how far along in the job are you completed? So, are you 10%? Are you 15%? Are you 70% or 80% done? And then that also then drives how you recognize your revenue on the jobs and also how far you are as far as what your invoicing looks like. Are you invoicing in advance? Are you behind on invoicing? And so, it gives you a snapshot as far as, “Okay, now I know I’m 20% into this job. Am I on target? Am I not on target?” And now I can evaluate that. If I don’t see that until I’m 75% in, “Well, it might be too late to make a decision to impact what’s happening on my job.”

(13:19):

And so, it really gives you a good snapshot of progress on jobs, where your costs are compared to what you’ve budgeted, and then, ultimately, where your revenue is and how much you can and should be invoicing over a period of time as well. That one report gives you an idea of what your cash flows on the job should look like, or if you’re behind or what your situation is, it gives you how far along in the job you are and, ultimately, if you’re trending towards profitability as well.

Charley Burtwistle (13:53):

Yeah, and to your point, looking at that two months post completion of a job doesn’t really give you a whole lot to work with there from …

Jason Kruger (14:01):

Yeah, it’s kind of like, “Well, okay, well I guess we learned from that and try to apply it on the next one, but really we want to apply it on that one.” So, the more real-time information we have, the better decision-making. And again, if we can find ways to carve out some extra margin, 1% is massive on a construction engagement. So, that’s what we’re always looking at with our clients is how do we find opportunities to identify opportunities for margin and profitability within the organization as a whole on specific jobs, but then also within the organization as a whole.

Charley Burtwistle (14:42):

Yeah, so, that’s interesting. I’m curious, what does a typical, and maybe typical isn’t a good way to put it, but when you engage with a client in the construction space what does that engagement typically look like? Is it people that already have a lot of this stood up, and they come to you to help automate or dial it in? Or is it people that are just getting started for the first time that don’t know where to start? What sort of clients are you typically working with and how far along are they?

Jason Kruger (15:09):

Yeah, I would love for it to be the former where they’re dialed in, and they just need some tweaks and some additional leadership to take them through. But in most cases, to be honest, it’s actually neither. We’re typically working with companies that have gotten past that beginning stage, but they’ve grown quickly, and they’ve lost control of their financial management, and they’re not getting good information. It’s lagging. They don’t trust it in a lot of ways. They have somebody within accounting and finance that maybe is in over their head, maybe they were effective when they were smaller and now they’ve grown.

(15:51):

And that’s the other thing in construction, general contractors can grow very quickly. We have a client that I think started in around 2019, 2020, they went from I think $15 million to $35 million to $60 million, and now they’re pushing $100 million. And so, what the team that got you there at $15 million is not going to be the team that likely should be there at $100 million. And so, what ends up happening is the company outgrows either the bandwidth or the sophistication of their existing team. And so, where we come in is we provide that sophistication, that we call it accounting, leadership and financial leadership to support and drive success within their existing team. So, that instead of the company having to hire a CFO or a controller or somebody else, this gives them that flexibility, cost flexibility and also flexibility in ensuring that we’re really focusing on the right things.

(17:02):

What I will say a lot of times is that business owners think well, so-and-so told me, just hire a CFO. They’ll cure all. They’ll save all. Well, a CFO should be there from a strategic perspective, but a lot of companies have an accounting problem, and CFOs are typically either don’t have the skillset to roll up their sleeves and fix the accounting side, or they don’t want to because that’s not what they were hired for. And so, they then end up having to bring in additional individuals to clean things up, so they can support from a strategic perspective. And so, that’s what we try to do is make sure that the strategic side is filled, and the company’s getting that value, but a lot of these companies don’t need that full-time CFO that they’re paying $200,000 plus a year for.

Charley Burtwistle (17:51):

Right. I mean I think it kind of is the same thought process when it comes to scalability that you were alluding to where to scale the number of jobs you can do in a year takes an extreme level of intentionality. You have to find subcontractors that you work with that you can trust. You have to negotiate supplier contracts. You have to make sure that you have the right number of project managers and field crew people to support all these. Dial in scheduling. Like the example you gave of scaling something from $15 million to $100 million, that takes a lot of boots on the ground work and intentionality. And it takes the same level of work intentionality to make sure you’re scaling up your accounting practices and financial practices as well, too. But oftentimes those get left in the background, and you don’t understand that you have the problem until it’s too late.

Jason Kruger (18:41):

Right. We see that a lot is it creates tremendous pain for a company once they get to that point if they have not established that foundation. The other thing that’s important, too, as companies grow is the financing and banking relationships. Many banks already they don’t specialize or they don’t like to work with construction general contractors, et cetera. And I think a lot of it can be very tied into the economy and other reasons, and low margins. But from a banking perspective, as companies grow, they really need to make sure that they have thought through the process of how am I going to grow effectively and do I have the cash flow to do that internally or do I need outside financing support? There are banks that do specialize and have the construction arm, and so, those are the ones we want to start with. And then making sure that the financial information and the conversations we’re having with the bank leads the bank to understand and agree at the sophistication level of the company.

(20:05):

The worst thing if a company wants to get financing or a line of credit is to just hit print on their accounting system and just send over information without making sure that it’s in the right format, it looks credible, it’s telling the right story. And that’s where there’s a lot of challenges is, let’s make sure that when we do bring in a banking relationship, and we do go after a line of credit, we’re prepared. We are providing the right information that tells the right story, adds to that credibility, so that the bank wants to establish that long-term relationship.

Charley Burtwistle (20:40):

That makes a ton of sense, especially with just all the variability not only in the construction industry, but the economy as a whole and how closely those two are tied. The context and the story you’re telling with the data matters so much more than just printing out P&Ls and sending over, right?

Jason Kruger (20:56):

Right. And the reality is banks, they don’t want to be transactional. So, if you’ve never talked to a bank, and you meet someone and say, “Hey, I need a line, just give me a line. I don’t really care.” That’s not their preference. They want to build a relationship. They want to have known you before. So, even if you don’t think you’re going to get a line or need a line now this year or next year, start building that relationship, so that when you do need it’s a lot easier, that the bank knows you, they understand you, they trust you, they’ve seen you in the marketplace. Or even maybe start to get a line now even though maybe you don’t need it because that starts to establish that relationship with the bank. And then over time you can start to extend that line if you need it, and then tap into it if you happen to need it when you didn’t realize you might.

(21:55):

And so, all of those conversations are critical, and that sophistication and how you communicate with the bank is critical in being able to actually get the financing that you need versus just saying, “Hey, just give me a line. I’m a good business. I’m growing. Throw some financials over the fence.” And that’s going to be a tough sled to get a line of credit and a good banking relationship at that point.

Charley Burtwistle (22:24):

So, if I’m a GC listening to this right now, I think a lot of the experience I have of talking to people on here is things can work well for a really, really long time and people don’t understand or maybe don’t even want to believe that things could be working even better. So, if I’m a GC listening to this right now, what are some of the kind of key financial metrics that I should be tracking and monitoring on a regular basis that is critical for business owners to understand?

Jason Kruger (22:52):

Yeah. Well, the first thing I would start out is I would be making sure I understood why am I running this business? What is my end game? Do I want to transition this to a younger generation, like you talked about before? Do I want this to be more of a lifestyle business? Am I happy with the revenue base that I’m at, or do I want to grow this and continue growing this forever? So, all of that depends on how you operate and run a business and also on the metrics and how you look at the business from a metrics and decision-making process. So, that’s number one.

(23:33):

The second is … The number one thing I think is most important from a day-to-day perspective is understanding the cash flows of the business. And what I mean by that is let’s make sure I understand that I can project out cash flows and what my cash position will be over the next three months, let’s say. And you keep rolling that forward on a weekly basis or at a minimum a monthly basis. And that gives me an understanding of, “Okay, here’s the outgoing cash, here’s the incoming cash, here’s my cash needs. Okay, yes, here’s where we do have to tap into our line of credit. Or hey, you know what? Things are a little bit thin. Let’s start having conversations with the bank.” We could probably get through it, but it’s probably good based on our growth trajectory that, “Hey, you know what? We do need to enter into some level of financing.” So, minimum, let’s make sure that we have an understanding of what our cash flows look like as we project them out and continue to roll that forward. That’s critical.

(24:36):

And then the second I think is again, making sure that you have confidence in your financials in a way that you can trust and develop a good WIP report. I think you talked about as the backbone of reporting, the WIP shows the metrics and the progress of your jobs that are critical. That then gives you a snapshot of what’s happening, but then understanding the margins on each job and what the expectation of that margin should be, I believe is critical, so that then you can manage against that. But it really, for me, it starts with that, WIP report is number one to make sure I have confidence in and then look at each job individually. How am I bidding jobs? What’s my expected margin? There are all different types of contracts between cost plus and then there’s government contracts, and then there might be all different types of contracts. So, depending on that contract really depends on how you manage that job as well though.

Charley Burtwistle (25:52):

Yeah, I mean that’s all gold. And I love the mindset that you started that with of first just understanding why am I in this business? Am I looking to scale this? Am I looking to pass it on? Is it looking to be a life cycle business? I think having that proper expectation first is going to dictate every other decision you make down the line based on some of the other things you mentioned as well, too.

Jason Kruger (26:13):

Right. Yeah, because if you’re at $10 million now and you want to be at $50 million, your cash flows and your expectations on cash needs are going to be different than if you’re $10 million now, and you always want to be $10 million. A lot of times to grow, you need cash. And especially in construction, when you get paid when they get paid and it gets strung out, cash can be a challenge with growth.

Charley Burtwistle (26:42):

Absolutely. We’re getting close to time here, but a couple more questions I want to make sure we hit. Obviously Buildertrend podcast, we’re very, very interested in technology in the space. I’d love to hear your thoughts not just on project management software such as Buildertrend, but also accounting specific software as well. That’s something that we’re constantly making sure that we integrate really, really well with and understand the benefits of having that information sink into Buildertrend. Can you talk to me a little bit about just the key, or not the key, but the importance of technology in the accounting space specifically for construction businesses and no free shout-outs, but obviously if you have some suggestions of systems that you typically work with, I think it would be gold for our listeners to understand that as well too?

Jason Kruger (27:24):

Yeah, I mean the accounting and the technology is critical. I mean, at a minimum, you have to have something. And if you don’t, then it’s going to be tough sledding, obviously. What’s important though is not just getting the good software, but making sure that it’s set up effectively to be able to work effectively. And what I mean by that is, Buildertrend is an awesome platform but if you don’t set it up appropriately, and it doesn’t integrate appropriately into an accounting system, you’re not getting the value out of it that you’re paying for. And a lot of times the challenge comes where the team that’s using it just doesn’t have the sophistication to be able to manage the accounting system with the construction management system and so on. And so, that’s where we come in a lot is providing that leadership and that management to ensure that all of the systems are working appropriately to interface and interact within each other to allow you to get the best information possible.

(28:36):

And so, setting up the system in a manner in which will create efficiencies and how you do things is critical. A lot of times companies they’ve been doing it a certain way forever and that’s the way they’ve always done it, and it’s very inefficient, or it’s very manual. We’ve seen a lot of situations where they couldn’t get the system to work the right way, so they’ve created Excel spreadsheets on the side and okay, we’re just doing this and this and this, instead of really taking the time to educate themselves on that system. So, if you’re going to invest in a system like a Buildertrend, take the time to get to know how to use it. It’s a fantastic system, but take the time to get to know how to use it, make sure your team is trained on how to use it and make sure you invest in that piece because investing to implement it, so let’s make sure you’re investing in your team to actually use it effectively and how it should be used.

(29:33):

In most cases it’s not the system’s fault when the company is having challenges using it or getting information out of it or saying, “Oh, well it doesn’t work. I can’t get it to work.” It’s usually the user’s fault because they haven’t taken the time to invest in their team or the right people to use it. So, that’s the first thing is no matter what system, make sure you understand how to use it, make sure it’s set up effectively from the beginning and test it effectively to make sure that you’re getting the results that you want out of it.

(30:07):

From accounting systems, we have a lot of clients that actually use the Sage products. Contractor or Construction I think 100 and 300 or two of them. That seems to be … We do have some on QuickBooks, some smaller companies on QuickBooks. QuickBooks is not great for construction to be honest. It’s a platform for accounting, but even their construction module is okay, but that’s the most cost-effective solution. So, a lot of companies use it. And if you have a system like a Buildertrend, it can really enhance and allow you to use QuickBooks for that much longer.

(31:01):

So, a lot of times it’s not necessarily the accounting system, it’s a system like a Buildertrend that really enhances the ability to take the business that much further, which is critical. So, if a company is only using QuickBooks and nothing else, it’s going to be very difficult to be able to effectively manage your construction practice.

Charley Burtwistle (31:23):

I just have to go back to the point you made earlier about setting stuff up properly and give a huge shout-out to our CTO, Jon Walker, who’s a huge fan of the podcast, and I’m sure he is grinning ear to ear when he is listening to this right now. That has been his biggest push since he started at Buildertrend of just changing the mindset of less training on how to use the platform until you get everything set up. Tools are only as good as they can be if they’re set up properly. And you can be an expert in how to use them, but if the data underlying what you’re using them for isn’t dialed, then you’re only going to get that much value out of it.

(31:57):

So, that’s been a huge shift that Buildertrend has made really in the past six months is when you sign up for Buildertrend before you even get into the platform and start learning how to click around and where things are at is making sure your data is set up. Even simple stuff like making sure you have the proper cost codes and the cost grouping and the cost of items and everything structured the right way before you start implementing them into Buildertrend has been a huge mindset shift that we’re implementing. And to hear you say that and reinforce that statement has me grinning ear to ear, too. So, we’re definitely aligned there.

Jason Kruger (32:30):

Yeah, we see that all the time. Implementations fail because of a disconnect between the team that’s implementing it and the company. So, a lot of times it’s a lack of sophistication on the company side because it’s like, “Okay, well, the management just says, okay, bookkeeper, go implement the system,” and they don’t have the sophistication to do that. And so that’s where we come in is we really bridge that gap in sophistication. And so, we do support a lot of times our clients in different system implementations that touch accounting because we have that expertise to be able to drive that process to ensure that things are being done effectively, it’s set up the right way, the business requirements are identified, and the system is meeting the expectations.

Charley Burtwistle (33:23):

I love it. Well, Jason, thank you so much for your time today. Before we sign off here, I would love if you could give our listeners just some quick info on where they can learn more about Signature Analytics and the services that you offer.

Jason Kruger (33:35):

Yeah, it’s SignatureAnalytics.com is the best way. You’ll see our website. We have, let’s see, the drop-down in industries, construction’s one of them. LinkedIn, you’ll see a lot of information on LinkedIn. You see that we’re very vocal there. Anyone can email me at any time. The letter J, Kruger, that’s K-R-U-G-E-R @signatureanalytics.com. I like talking to business owners. Like I said, we have colleagues on our team that are much more sophisticated than I am when it comes to construction even. We have about 75 full-time employees, so we’re not a staffing or recruiting firm. It’s, “Hey, let’s make sure we have the right team to support you and work with you, but on a flexible basis to from a cost perspective, but also from a value perspective.”

Charley Burtwistle (34:28):

I love it. Well, we’ll make sure to link all those in the show notes as well, too, if people are listening, didn’t have time to write those down. Jason, thank you so much for your time today. I learned a ton, so I can’t imagine how much our listeners learned. Really, really appreciate you.

Jason Kruger (34:41):

Thank you so much, Charley.

Charley Burtwistle (34:44):

We just heard from Jason Kruger, founder and president of Signature Analytics, talking a little bit about the accounting services that their company provides. But more holistically, just some basic financial principles that businesses across the country should be implementing into their processes. I loved his viewpoint of the work in progress report and ensuring that you have snapshots of that every week, if not more often, and not looking at it retroactively, but using as a tool to make proactive informed decisions. I thought that was very, very valuable. I love talking about how to be proactive working with banks and lenders about getting lines of credit. I thought everything that he mentioned was extremely thoughtful and, again, proactive and not just sitting back and waiting until an issue arises, but thinking forward of where do I want to be a year from now, five years from now, 10 years from now, and what do I want to do now to better set myself up for success in the future there? So, extremely insightful. I took a ton of notes written down here. So, Jason, thank you again for coming on today.

(35:47):

That will do it for us for this recording. Thank you guys very much for tuning in. As always, like, review and subscribe anywhere you listen to podcasts. That would really mean a lot to me personally. Otherwise, I will see you next time for another episode of “The Building Code.” I’m Charley Burtwistle. Peace.