APB’s 2024 SORCI Report: Find out what 92% of builders are doing wrong

Zach Wojtowicz:

What’s up, everybody? Welcome to “The Building Code.” I’m Zach Wojtowicz.

Charley Burtwistle:

I’m Charley Burtwistle. Huge shout out Chiefs, going to the Super Bowl. Actually, I guess since this …

Zach Wojtowicz:

They may have won the Super Bowl.

Charley Burtwistle:

They may have won it. I’m going to say right now the Chiefs are Super Bowl champions.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Oh, you’re going all in?

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, I’ll lock it in.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I can’t put a … No, I will not join you on this.

Charley Burtwistle:

I’m going to do it.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I can’t in good faith. If you’re a long time “The Building Code” listener, you know where my heart is. It’s not with the Chiefs.

Charley Burtwistle:

Tough year for the Bengals.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Sorry, Joe Christensen.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, but enough of Zach’s woes. We have an exciting guest today, Russ Stephens. We’re not going to let Zach’s bad mood get in the way of it. One of our personal favorite guests. I know everyone in the studio is super excited to listen to it.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Nicole was giddy.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, we got it-

Zach Wojtowicz:

We got everybody in the back booth piled in.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, for the little insider baseball, we have a small live audience listening to every show.

Zach Wojtowicz:

They pretty much are just staring at us like, “Be on your best behavior. Family program.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Don’t ruin the interview with Russ.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah.

Charley Burtwistle:

Big guest today.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s right. We need handlers.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, we’ve had him, this will be his fourth episode with us. We have him on at least once a year, because they produce an incredible report that comes out annually. We’re going to talk about that. Just a fantastic guy, fantastic business mind. I’m sure we’re going to vary quite a bit outside of just the report as well.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Always do. Buckle up. This one is always a ride. Hey, Russ, welcome back to “The Building Code,” a four- timer here on “The Building Code,” which is an illustrious group, only a handful of people. Congratulations, big time. T-shirt’s in the mail, the whole shebang. How are you? It’s good to see you.

Russ Stephens:

I’m fantastic, thanks. Yeah, so excited to be back and hanging out with you guys. It certainly is, it’s becoming a bit of an annual event now.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I know. It’s kind of hard to believe that we’re actually veteran podcasters.

Charley Burtwistle:

I was definitely fired up when I saw your name on the meeting invite.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Notice a little pep in the step for old Charles.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, it’s that time for Russ again, our favorite time of the year. For those listeners that are perhaps a little newer to the show and haven’t heard any of your previous episodes, could you just give us a little bit about your background, how you ended up co-founding the Association of Professional Builders, and kind of where you’re at now?

Russ Stephens:

Certainly. We started out as a marketing agency, generating leads for builders, and that would’ve been around about 2010, I guess. Maybe a bit before then. At that time, there was a lot of building companies, believe it or not, that didn’t even have websites. A lot of this stuff was quite new. We were building websites, we were running campaigns on Facebook and Google, and that led us to realize that generating quality leads was only half the problem.

A lot of the builders were still struggling to convert those leads, which is why we then went into sales training initially to teach builders the process, really, for signing high value contracts. After having success with that, with generating the leads, and then converting the leads into high-margin contracts, we realized that there was still an issue in terms of time management, systemization, but most importantly, profitability, which is why we then launched the Association of Professional Builders in 2014.

Just gone from strength to strength from then. Just teaching builders all about business from marketing and sales to operations, and probably most importantly, financials and numbers.

Charley Burtwistle:

Definitely.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s why Charley gets all fired up. He loves numbers, finance.

Charley Burtwistle:

I do love numbers. Also, congratulations on the 10-year anniversary.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, that’s awesome.

Charley Burtwistle:

Do you have an exact date for that?

Russ Stephens:

Yes, 31st of August.

Charley Burtwistle:

Oh, which happens to be …

Russ Stephens:

Anniversary, yes.

Charley Burtwistle:

… Happens to be my birthday.

Zach Wojtowicz:

No way. Wow.

Charley Burtwistle:

Maybe I’ll fly over there and we can do kind of a joint party together to celebrate.

Zach Wojtowicz:

You like 13 …

Russ Stephens:

That’s going to be some party.

Charley Burtwistle:

No, that’s very exciting. Congratulations.

Russ Stephens:

Thank you.

Charley Burtwistle:

The reason that we have you on the show today and every year is the APB Report, which is one of my favorite reports. I still have last year’s copy on my desk that I look at more frequently than I care to admit because it is just filled with gold. Anytime someone starts talking about something, my favorite saying is, “Men lie, women lie, data doesn’t.”

It’s like, “Oh, I wonder how many builders are doing cost plus.” I’m like, “I can tell you exactly how many. I have to just flip open to page 32. I have it bookmarked here, Association of Professional Builders report. We can go from there.”

Zach Wojtowicz:

He’s not even joking either. This is a …

Charley Burtwistle:

No, that’s a real life …

Zach Wojtowicz:

That was a real story.

Charley Burtwistle:

… It happened like last week. For those that don’t have that on their desk right now, can you give a little overview of just what that is and why everyone should be super excited about it?

Russ Stephens:

Yeah, absolutely. The State of the Residential Construction Industry Report is now in its fourth year as well. It’s a survey that we put out to the industry asking over a hundred questions now. I think there was 114 questions covering marketing, sales, operations, financials, team, and going deep into residential building companies, and only residential building companies as well, so new home companies and large remodeling companies, which keeps the data consistent.

You start throwing in some commercial stuff, and it kind of becomes irrelevant. It’s very, very focused on the residential construction industry. Very, very comprehensive, and like you say, it has insights that you just don’t see anywhere else. How many builders are using cost plus contracts? Because we’re now in our fourth year, we can now see the trends as well, which is probably just as important as the data. Numbers on their own are quite useful, but trends, well, that’s a real insight into where this industry is heading.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s amazing. We love to hear that, that things are looking positive and that we’re moving. I look at the report, too, for what it’s worth, I actually used it for a, I gave an educational talk to builders in our local Omaha remodeler chapters for accreditation. I thought it’d be really interesting to share.

I thought some of the points that stuck out to builders were things like, I spend so much time working in the business, not working on the business. Have we seen any improvement in people taking a higher- level view of running the business, not just working on the projects in the business?

Russ Stephens:

Yes. Yeah. There’s no question that year-on-year, this industry is becoming more and more professional. That is a definite trend that we’ve seen ever since we started collating this information. A lot of that really is due to the systems that are now available for builders. Systems like Buildertrend give a builder so much insight now into their business, and allow them to run their company efficiently.

That’s something that just wasn’t possible to the degree that they’re now able to do it with software because I think running a residential building company is so admin intensive. When you’re starting out, you almost have to maybe ignore some parts of the perfect process because it’s just not possible with time constraints. Tools like Buildertrend, and obviously, with AI coming in as well, making it even easier to be systemized and organized, that is all contributing to a far more professional industry.

We just need to shake off this perception, I think, by the public of what a builder is, and let them see that professional builders these days, they’re not guys standing around in high vis tops who are drinking out of stubbies. That might be an Australian term there, but drinking beers. Yeah, these are professionals that come together. These are professional business people. The industry has moved on. The perception needs to catch up.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, I agree. Even in the past, since I started at Buildertrend, which is six years ago from two days ago, actually.

Zach Wojtowicz:

So many anniversaries.

Charley Burtwistle:

A ton of anniversaries. Even in the past six years when I first started getting pretty heavily interested and involved and invested in the construction industry, I feel like it’s been a total 180, and obviously, the COVID and work from home and stuff like that, I think forced some people to make that change quicker than they originally would have, but today, and talking to two or three builders every week on the podcast here, it’s been night and day from my experience, and I think it’s really exciting.

We also have a note on here that this year was a record number of builders participating in the APB Report, which I think speaks to being more professional, getting more involved in some of those things of nature as well. I was curious on what your take was of how this continues to gain steam and traction, and get bigger and bigger.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah. Well, it’s largely thanks to our industry partners like Buildertrend that understand the value in collecting and sharing this information across the industry because it does benefit builders. I think more and more companies are now coming to this realization as well and joining in the survey to get it out to their databases. That is causing a compound effect. Coupled with the APB’s own growth rate as well, we’ve been one of Australia’s top 100 fastest growing companies for the last three years now.

That growth rate obviously means that outreach is expanding, but with the partners coming on board as well each year, that’s given the survey a lot more reach. I think it was something in the region of 1,800 respondents this year, which is pretty phenomenal when you consider how much of their time they’re committing, how many questions we’re asking. Again, people don’t volunteer their time and submit that information unless they’re getting something back. It shows that taking part in the survey, builders get a lot back out of just doing that. It’s like a self-diagnostic tool, really.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s a great point. That’s how I thought about it, too, is like, where are you at in the line? How can you stack rank to the best of the best? These are all the things that you need to have to consider in order for you to be successful or a professional builder. What are the things that stuck out to you? You did the report. You look at the report year over year. I’m sure you’ve got the best insight. What was kind of the things that you’re like, “Huh,” or, “Oh, that’s different?”

Russ Stephens:

Yeah, there were two things that really stuck out, I think, when we collated the data at the back end of 2023 for this year’s report, which is going to be launched on the, I believe it’s the 7th of March, and that was that marketing remains a missed opportunity, and that over 92% of builders are looking at inaccurate financial reports. I guess if we start with marketing, just to add a bit of substance to that claim, that means a missed opportunity, 43% of builders are still neglecting Facebook.

Well, only I should say, only 46% of builders are using a CRM system. I can remember back in the early 2000s, being drummed into us as business owners that a CRM is the lifeblood of any business. Every single business should have a CRM. Yet here we are 20 years later, still only less than half of builders are using a CRM. 38% of the builders that responded to the survey are not engaged in paid advertising. Again, referrals are great, don’t get me wrong, but it’s the cream on the top.

If you do not have a systemized way of attracting prospects, attracting leads that involves paying, you don’t really have a business that you’re in control of. You’re at the mercy of your referrers. Two-thirds of builders have not written a single blog article in the past year, and we’ve been beating this drum for a long time now. Content marketing is the absolute key for high margin building companies. You’ve got to be producing great content.

It was no surprise when you look at those stats that 46% of building companies said they were struggling to generate quality leads. When you look at these are the fundamentals, really, of marketing are not being done, it’s no surprise that we’re hearing so many builders struggle, which is, I guess, is a good thing as well, in terms of it’s a clear opportunity. You might have this problem, there’s not enough leads. We’re hearing it more and more now, but the solution is quite simple, and it has all been structured and laid out for you. The solution is there if you want to explore it.

The other thing that really stood out, and it was concerning as well, and it has been a concern ever since we started the Association of Professional Builders back in 2014, and this is the financial understanding. You don’t have to be a wizard at numbers, but as a business owner, let alone the owner of a residential building company with high revenue, wafer thin margins, you must be across your numbers.

Every builder can be across their numbers. You’re already doing estimates, you’re doing something that’s way too complex for your average business owner. You guys are doing that already. You can understand what is a much simpler process. You just need to be shown, really. That will help you to understand your numbers, because unless you understand your numbers, you can’t scale safely and securely, or profitably. The one number, I think, that we highlight every year is that this year, the most recent data, only 7.6% of builders fully understand the work in progress calculation.

Now, without this calculation, financial reports are wrong. They cannot be produced accurately. We say this time and time again, 90% of building companies are looking at inaccurate information. The reason it’s inaccurate is they’re not doing this one, it is simple, this one simple calculation when you have the right calculator. That is a big concern. Overall, this data, that really does point to an urgent need for improved financial literacy amongst builders, particularly, like I say, in the area of that work in progress calculation, to ensure that their reporting is accurate.

That means they can then engage in sustainable business practices. If you just look at your cash flow, if you just look at how much money in your bank, I hate to say this, but you will fall over as soon as there a downturn, because there is a very high likelihood that you’re operating a construction Ponzi scheme. Not deliberately, I would never say that, but inadvertently, that’s exactly what you’re doing, unfortunately. You have to be very, very careful in this industry.

Charley Burtwistle:

What I really like about both of those, I want to touch on both briefly, is what you’re saying is that you are surviving, but there’s two huge opportunities to thrive, right? I think you had one of my favorite quotes a couple episodes ago when you talked about a lot of people are resistant to change because they don’t want to admit that there was an easier, better way of doing things for the past 10 years, right?

It’s like, “Oh, we’re operating on razor-thin margins, we’re barely making a profit, and we’ve barely been doing that for 20 years.” It’s like, “We could have maybe invested a little bit earlier in marketing, or we could have invested a little bit earlier in understanding our financials.” While those are challenges and ones that companies like Buildertrend and Professional Builders are trying to help solve, they’re also huge opportunities.

The content marketing specifically, we just had an episode 10 ago with Cathern Strief who works here in Omaha for one of our large home builders, doing their content marketing. We sat down with her for half an hour, just talked through all the different baby steps you can take to get into blog posts, or YouTube videos, or even just Instagram pictures, really simple things.

It was an interesting interview because the same sort of tactics that people in the construction industry are taking to improve the quality of the leads are the same sort of tactics that we’re taking out of tech company. That’s why we do this podcast. That’s why we write blog articles. That’s why we have Instagram and Twitter and stuff like that. It’s always funny when we can connect on a more direct level with the people that we’re talking about and say, “Hey, we’re working towards the same thing, too.” It’s an opportunity for everyone.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah, and it’s really interesting what you say about that mindset of some builders being resistant to change. What we’ve seen over the years, and this presents another great opportunity for a large amount of building companies, is that mindset tends to affect the larger, an inverted comma’s like more successful building companies. I’m talking about the $50, $60, $70 million plus building companies. They become more entrenched in their ways, because they’ve got to that point, and they’re being seen as being very successful, but they just don’t realize how much money that they’re leaving on the table.

I guess this is where the SORCI report can come in useful for them, because they can see that other builders are actually making more money than them. I still speak to a lot of these guys, and they’re happy with 5% net because they’re doing tens of millions. Really, they’re still leaving money on the table, and they’re leaving a lot more money on the table, really. To get up to 10% now on a $50 million company, that’s another two and a half million that they previously would’ve left on the table.

It’s no extra work either. They just need to slightly tweak their processes to achieve that. Yeah, it’s quite extraordinary how they become more set in their ways, the more successful they are. That presents a great opportunity to the small guys to be dynamically adept.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Russ, I’m kind of curious, you guys do this report, do you share it with members of the Association of Professional Builders first? Do they get the inside scoop, or is this something that anybody can access at any time when it comes out?

Russ Stephens:

Yeah, look, we do launch it to our members and to our partners as well, about a week ahead of going public. I think we give it to our partners a bit earlier than that, to be honest. I think you guys have already seen the data for last year, for instance, but in terms of the finished report, yeah, there has to be a benefit of being a member, doesn’t there, being in the circles?

Zach Wojtowicz:

Right.

Russ Stephens:

Give those guys a heads-up. Yes, the report is available for every building company, and even there’s a lot of interest in this report from suppliers and service providers as well because of the insights it gives. It is free for everyone in PDF format. We used to charge, originally when we launched it, I think it was close to $500, and then we brought the price down for the printed.

Now we give away the PDF because it is just such useful information for everyone. We also do a printed version, and that is something that we do charge just to cover our printing costs. Yeah, a slight heads up for the members, I would say, but is available to everyone.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I love it. I just think it’s interesting that you have gone about doing this, and really, as I find it incredibly useful, and I hope our listeners give it a look and make sure that they look it over and use it as that self-diagnostic tool to see what could you be doing in 2024? I keep saying 2023 still, it’s February. I think when you think about builders that are growth mindset, looking for sources of information, it’s a really good way to get inspiration, too.

When I looked it over, I kind of forget all the elements that you could explore from a business investment standpoint to say, “This year, I really want to dial in my content marketing.” In my experience with the customers, it’s not that they don’t want to do it, they just don’t even think about it.

Charley Burtwistle:

Right.

Zach Wojtowicz:

It just isn’t top of mind. Having a source of information that highlights what others are doing is extremely useful. Even for me in my own day-to-day, that’s what I do to get inspiration to help my own department and team in Buildertrend is I go look elsewhere. I’m like, “Oh, they’re doing this. I should be doing this, too.”

It’s like FOMO, and I’m going to go figure out a way to make it happen. I really appreciate that the Association of Professional Builders does this and is willing to share it with everyone.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah, you bring up a good point because coaches talk, don’t they, but builders walk the walk. If you can look at the data and see, well, this is what the other guys are doing … Probably another thing I’ll add as well, it’s not just looking at the data as to see who’s doing what, but we cross-reference the data as well to demonstrate the result of what these builders do.

That’s how we’ve been able to demonstrate to builders that 3% being invested, 3% of your turnover, your revenue being invested into marketing and advertising, that is the sweet spot for a residential building company. I know we all know this as business owners, we know the supply and demand formula, but I think when we get into our businesses, we always tend to forget that and we cut back on marketing.

It’s the first thing that goes, but that’s clear proof that you have to be consistently reinvesting in generating more demand for your business. When you do that, your profit margins lift because it becomes, you’re less dependent, aren’t you, on everyone signing up, which means you can push your margins up, you can be more confident in sticking to your guns. You can let people walk when they’re not prepared to pay the price, or they’re trying to haggle because you’ve got two more waiting behind them.

By actually taking the data from the guys that do invest 3% or more into their marketing and cross-referencing that with their margins, we’ve been able to prove that these guys do not just have higher gross margins. After they’ve spent that 3%, they still have higher net margins as well. That’s the key. That’s why we’re all here is to make more money.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. I think another really cool thing that I love about the report is the way you split it out and segment. You don’t just lump all construction professionals in together. You break it out. Well, maybe I’ll ask you, I remember specifically from last year, you had home builders versus remodelers. You have Australia, New Zealand, United States all kind of split out, too, and some of them are just crazy, vastly different.

I don’t think we give enough thought or effort or attention to just how different a remodeler operates their business versus a home builder. Is there anything else to add to that, or maybe some key things that you always jump off the page to you of like, “Okay, these are vastly different businesses?”

Russ Stephens:

Yeah. Look, first of all, like you say, yes, we do break it down by country because we have builders in the U.S., Canada, Australia and New Zealand all taking part, and everyone thinks the same thing. It’s different in my country, in my state, in my city. The first thing we do is we break it down by country to prove that in about 95% of the instances, the data is very, very similar across all countries. There are some exceptions which are notable, safety being a big one.

In the US, the adoption of safety procedures and software, way, way lower than say, New Zealand, where about something crazy, like 90%-95% percent of the builders use software to manage their safety. It’s off the scale. That’s unusual. In terms of country, generally, it’s very, very similar. In terms of new homes and remodelers, what we generally see is that new home building companies are much easier to scale.

They do have generally a much higher turnover than remodeling companies, which tend to kind of tap out at round about the $10 to $20 million market becomes a lot harder to scale a remodeling company. I think that’s because there’s so much more decision making that has to be made on site, which means it’s either the owner or a highly skilled person has to be kind of available to do a lot of that decision making.

New homes can be a lot more systemized and subsequently scaled, but what we also see is that the margins are significantly higher for a remodeling company as well. A new home building company, the benchmark, the target is always to have a gross markup of 33%, which is 25% margin, 15% fixed expenses, including a market salary for the owner, and 3% on marketing sales. That gives them a double-digit or 10% net profit.

Now, a remodeling company would typically mark up by about 55% to 60%, but some of the better operators with good content marketing strategies are even higher than that. That does give them a higher gross profit, and they’ll probably end up with about 15% net. I guess the trade-off there is that they kind of top out, whereas the new home building companies continue to be scaled.

In summary, at the lower end of the revenue range, the remodeling companies are more profitable, but there’s a bigger scaling opportunity for the new home building companies.

Zach Wojtowicz:

One of the things that I wanted to ask, specifically, and I remember seeing this report or this data point, or maybe I made it up, I shouldn’t assume, do you ask about cost plus builders versus contract type is what I’m trying to ask? Are you seeing any trends in people shifting their contract types if it exists? Sorry for the poor wording of my question. With interest rates going up, with COVID kind of ending, I’m curious if people are changing the way that they structure their contracts now.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah, look, and it was a new question that we introduced, I’d say last year, it was 2022 that we introduced it, the ’22 survey. It became on the report last year. That was the first time. We have missed out on spotting the trend, but our feeling at the time was that more builders were turning towards cost plus contracts at that time because of the cost escalations that we were seeing that were catching so many building companies out. A lot of building companies thought that the cost plus was the silver bullet.

There’s been lots of data and research to show that fixed price contracts are still more profitable, but you’ve got to be in control of your systems and processes. You’ve got to be getting your orders out there and locked in as soon as the contract is signed. I do realize that during COVID, a lot of the suppliers and subcontractors weren’t honoring orders, but we’re now back to the point where they are.

We got a snapshot a year ago of how many builders were doing cost plus, and that did vary across countries. What we’ve seen this year is a slight decline. I think a lot of that is to do with the construction inflation easing. It’s taken the pressure off. I think a lot of guys have gone into cost plus and realized just how difficult those contracts are. From the outside, it seems like, wow, it’s just you can’t lose because the price is the price.

As they’re now finding out, when you focus the client’s mind on price, all they’ve got to negotiate with, they’re looking at all your costs all the time and basically arguing with you. It’s become a horrendous experience for a lot of builders. I think a lot of guys have experimented and then gone back into fixed price. We also, we help a lot of builders that start out doing cost plus, which is probably not such a bad strategy when you’re kind of new to custom home building. You’re taking on a lot of risks there. We help them to transition into fixed price because that’s where the margins are.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That makes a lot of sense.

Charley Burtwistle:

Fascinating. I think I can tell that Zach’s contemplating, we’re way over time. Do we need to end it, but also, I’m having so much fun that we need to keep talking.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I know. Russ, we’re going to have to get you on this record club, the five timer.

Charley Burtwistle:

I was thinking, Zach, we just need to start being selfish and going outside the podcast and just calling …

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, Russ.

Charley Burtwistle:

… Just bothering Russ.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Russ, we’d love to come to the Gold Coast in the summertime. Yeah, the summertime of your neck of the woods.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, just thank you so much, Russ. This has been an incredible interview as always. Very much looking forward to seeing the report. I’ll make sure to purchase the hard copy and recycle the one on the desk I have right now. Thank you. Great interview, great guest and really appreciate your time.

Russ Stephens:

Wow. Thank you for having me, guys. Yeah, it’s always great to hang out with like-minded people. I know we’re a little bit weird in some people’s eyes, getting excited about numbers. This is gold.

Charley Burtwistle:

Perfect. Well, thank you, Russ. Have a great day.

Russ Stephens:

Thank you.

Charley Burtwistle:

Well, Zach, what did you think of the interview with Russ?

Zach Wojtowicz:

Thanks for asking. I’m glad that you let me go first this time.

Charley Burtwistle:

Well, if you would’ve asked me, I would’ve just talked for hours, so I’m going to …

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, it’s better.

Charley Burtwistle:

… Count on you to keep it a little shorter.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I know this one was special, so …

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, absolutely.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Not that they aren’t all special, but some that Charley comes into the studio a little more …

Charley Burtwistle:

Excited, a little more chipper.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s right. Yeah, I love the APB Report. I wasn’t joking, I used it to actually create some curriculum because I think it’s really interesting. Builders who aren’t maybe seeking out this information always respond really positively. I can’t wait to get my hands on it and spend some time digging deep a little bit. Russ is always, he’s an expert, so he knows everything about construction. He really understands the whole end-to-end process. I always learn a bunch.

It’s interesting to continue to hear how a lot of the conversations around profitability in all of business are trickling into construction as well. I think they’ve probably always been probably more prone to profitability than maybe what you and I have looked at historically in our line of work. I think this year is going to be really good for the housing industry in the grand scheme of things.

There’s been a lot of challenges. With the interest rates being as high as they are, the relaxing at least in the United States and North America of the interest rates, I know people now that are starting to look for new homes more than the last two years.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I’m really positive. I’m bullish on what residential construction is going to look like in 2024 for what my opinion’s worth. What about you?

Charley Burtwistle:

Well, I locked in this Chiefs Super Bowl pick at the beginning, so I got my prediction out of the way.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Perfect. Yours is a little safer.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, a little safer. No, I agree. I think it’s going to be a big year, and I think that the data shows that. I also think that what I love about the report and what I brought up to Russ is even if it isn’t a good year from outside factors, there are things and opportunities that you can be taking advantage of to weather that storm. Not just weather it, but thrive in it. The APB Report is a perfect tool to kind of guide you towards what those opportunities are.

Is it marketing spend? Do you have your margins dialed in? Is it how you’re adjusting your estimates in building these different things out? Definitely check it out. I’m sure we’ll have it linked in the show notes. If not, you can email me directly, and I’ll send you the link.

Zach Wojtowicz:

He’ll mail you a paid copy.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, maybe. The first person that emails me because I’ll have exactly one. No, it’s going to be great. I’m excited to see it when it comes out. Russ was an absolute pleasure, as always.

Zach Wojtowicz:

He’ll be back. No doubt.

Charley Burtwistle:

No doubt.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I’ll talk about our future engagements. We’re going to be doing things at IBS, so it’s going to be really exciting.

Charley Burtwistle:

It’ll be great. I’ll have to have someone FaceTime me, so I can watch that live.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I’ll get you a picture.

Charley Burtwistle:

Thanks. Appreciate that.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Signed by Russ.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, and then that’s a great reminder. Did this episode come out before IBS?

Zach Wojtowicz:

No.

Charley Burtwistle:

That just happened.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yep.

Charley Burtwistle:

How was it?

Zach Wojtowicz:

It was fantastic. I got you a signed picture.

Charley Burtwistle:

Thank you. As always, I’m Charley Burtwistle.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I’m Zach Wojtowicz.

Charley Burtwistle:

This is “The Building Code.” We will see you …

Zach Wojtowicz:

Catch you next time.