Constructing connections: How leveraging builder communities ensures success

Zach Wojtowicz:

What’s up everybody? I’m Zach Wojtowicz.

Charley Burtwistle:

I am Charley Burtwistle.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Per usual, it’s “The Building Code.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. What if it wasn’t?

Zach Wojtowicz:

What if it wasn’t?

Charley Burtwistle:

But luckily it is.

Zach Wojtowicz:

We’re announcing today a rebrand of “The Building Code.”

Charley Burtwistle:

To the Zach and Charley show.

Zach Wojtowicz:

To “The Building-er Code.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Oh, okay. Yeah, we could do that. Or …

Zach Wojtowicz:

Oh, you want to go sit the full Zach and Charley show?

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, might as well.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. We’re taking this thing international.

Charley Burtwistle:

We’re taking this thing extremely downhill. Get ready to unsubscribe.

Zach Wojtowicz:

This intro, smooth as silk. Charley, it’s good to see you here in the studio. It’s a little warm in here today, but cold outside. The times are changing out there. Always a good time.

Charley Burtwistle:

Zach, I’m glad instead of that nice little banter we were doing, you’d rather talk about the weather.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s that midlife crisis, energy. Who do we got today, buddy?

Charley Burtwistle:

Well, today we have Sean Gallagher, who is the founder of Jasper Builders out in Mooresville, North Carolina, longtime Buildertrend user. Very excited to have him in today because we’re going to be talking about building community. I feel like the past few episodes, we’ve touched on this a little bit. Jasper Builders and Sean are a great resource, so very excited to pick his brain.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I’m really interested to get his perspective on how this is a priority for him and his business, and ultimately we’re hoping that you’ll kind of learn why you should go out into your community and see what other contractors are doing. Never know what you might learn.

Charley Burtwistle:

Exactly, but let’s not have Zach and I tell you about it. Let’s have Sean tell you about it. Let’s get him in here.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Hey Sean, welcome to “The Building Code.” It’s so great to have you here. We always like to ask our guests – tell us a little bit about your company and yourself and how’d you end up in construction. Give us your journey a little bit.

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah, so I’ll tell. I’ll abbreviate it the best I can. Like a lot of folks that are in construction, I grew up in this business. My stepdad at the time drove a truck, a delivery truck for a lumber company in upstate New York. Doing that, he made a lot of contacts, and he always ended up with a side hustle on the weekend.

He would always go work with these builders that he was delivering material for during the week. Then on the weekends he would go do miscellaneous jobs and stuff for them. I would ride with him in the summertime. I would ride on the delivery truck with him. He’d let me keep the tips and then I’d go with him to these jobs on the weekend to go work with these different builders. I’ve been on a job site pretty much my whole life. Had a little kitchen renovation business in college, upstate New York, that kind of funded me through that and left New York saying “I’ll never be in the construction industry again.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Famous last words.

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah, famous last words. Moved down to Charlotte, got a gig teaching, did that for about four years and then went and worked for a national home builder at the time. Did that for about a year and a half, and then launched Jasper Builders in 1999. We’ve been at it for a pretty good bit, have seen a lot of growth in the Charlotte market, which has been pretty exciting.

It’s kind of through the evolution of the company. Now I would consider us a boutique builder. We’re a smaller company. We’ll do six or eight homes a year, all higher end. Most of it is designed in-house. We do do some plans that clients have before they get to us, but for the most part, folks are coming to us right in the beginning, and we’re able to design homes that are really the best fit for the lot and the property that we’re building on because they’re crazy lots and each one’s really unique.

Charley Burtwistle:

Gosh. Something I’m always fascinated by is talking to someone that founded a business, is just the evolution of Jasper Builders. Were you always a home builder? How has the number of jobs that you’re doing, you mentioned a little bit the type of job has maybe changed a little bit over the years, but I feel like we have a lot of guests that come in that inherited construction businesses, and that’s been super cool to watch how they have evolved and change things.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Make their mark.

Charley Burtwistle:

Make their mark, right? Then we have a lot of people that have started construction businesses within the last three or four or five years, which has been a crazy time as well too. But I’d love to hear from 1999 through today, kind of what that evolution has looked like for you.

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah. Pretty much Chuck in a truck. That’s the way I started. Basically, evolution’s a great way to put it, because when I moved down here, I was really introduced to this concept of subcontractors. When we were building in New York, I mean we pretty much did everything in-house. The things that we didn’t do in-house, masonry, and that was about it. Everything else we did in-house.

I’ve pulled wires and sweated pipes and hung drywall insulation. I mean, we did it all. We even waterproofed our own foundations. I mean, it was all, and then I moved down here and got into this business with this national home builder that I was telling you about. I mean, everything was a subcontractor, and I was pretty much horrified that no one was doing it in-house. Right?

Zach Wojtowicz:

How does this work? Yeah.

Sean Gallagher:

Then really got myself eventually to the spot of understanding, okay, we’re really hiring, not jack of all trades, but we’re hiring guys that are experts in their particular field and trade. But it took me a while to get there. Then the next piece of that was I was managing, golly at the time, probably something like 15 jobs at a time.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Wow.

Sean Gallagher:

For this builder. They were like, “Okay, we’re going to promote you to warranty manager.” I’m like, “Yeah, there’s zero chance of that.” At that point I jumped ship and sort of had to create the business from there because I’m a terrible employee. I got to be self-employed because I’m not great at following direction.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Hey, at least you recognize that. You got to play to your strengths, right? That’s important.

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah, that’s true.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I don’t want to distract too long. I’m a former teacher. What did you teach? You teach construction?

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah, so my degree was in physics and math.

Charley Burtwistle:

Hey, that’s what mine were.

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah, I actually taught high school math and physics.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That might explain, too, that was something I … Following the rules as the teacher is a real unique place to be when you’re kind of a natural rule breaker yourself. The guys in the back of the class not paying attention, you’re like, “I remember you. I can empathize with this.”

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah, the other side of that, that was kind of crazy. I was 24, and I’m teaching these seniors in high school that are 18 years old.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. It was weird.

Sean Gallagher:

I’m having parent conferences and these parents are looking at me like I’m their kid.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, it’s kind of like being in a movie scene. You’re like, “Wow. It’s like I never thought I’d find myself in this situation, but here we are.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, that was me every day.

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah. It was pretty comical.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. You ended up, you’ve Chuck in a truck to boutique build.

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Was that always your goal, or does that something that as you took on more work, and you got more strategic, that’s where you wanted to end up being over time?

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah. I think the change really started happening when I started turning into a really big reader. When I was in high school, I read a lot for fun and then Dan Brown kind of stuff. Then all through college I was like zero chance of me reading for fun because I was reading for work basically all the time.

Then got away from it for a long time. Then I’ll tell you, one of the most significant things on my journey was 1999, I had a neighbor, and he handed me a book called Financial Peace by Dave Ramsey. He’s like, “I saw this guy speak,” and he’s like, “It’s the most significant thing that ever happened to me in my life.” I read that book and really became kind of a business finance junkie from that.

Just started doing a lot of reading, started really understanding what it means to own a business and to run a business and to not just manage a project. At that point, really started putting more energy into processes and procedures and fast-forward, golly, I think now I’ve been with you guys on Buildertrend for, I don’t know, maybe seven years now, something like that, which again is process, process, process.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah.

Sean Gallagher:

That was the evolution out of Chuck in the truck and then understanding, right, you’re so limited. You can only be in one place doing one thing at a time, and you basically handcuff yourself if you’re afraid to grow.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s a great point. One of the things we wanted to talk to you about today, and you kind of mentioned the peer-to-peer relationship, you got the recommendation to check out Dave Ramsey. Is that an area of focus that you kind of think about with construction? Are you part of any local builder groups or have you kind of passed on your knowledge to other builders in your area?

Sean Gallagher:

Oh, yeah. I’m fully entrenched. I’m about to start my third year as the president of our local HBA.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Oh, wow.

Sean Gallagher:

We actually have our biggest event of the year is tomorrow night. This is a good warmup for me being in front of the camera because tomorrow I’ll be in a suit and a tie addressing 300 people at 6:00 tomorrow.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Wow.

Sean Gallagher:

Definitely involved in our local HBA. Then outside of that, I’m involved in a 20 group through the National Home Builders Association, which was also a peer recommendation in 2014. One of the most significant changes really is about being involved in a group like that, where everybody is fully committed to your success. It’s bizarre how much interest like-minded people will pour into each other. I mean, it’s amazing.

Charley Burtwistle:

Gosh, Zach, do you think we could get a flight to North Carolina by tomorrow at 6:00? We can open.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, do you need some commentary?

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. We can introduce you.

Zach Wojtowicz:

If you need a couple wing men.

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah, come on in. I think we actually, we’ve got an extra spot at our table.

Charley Burtwistle:

Oh, perfect.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, perfect. Yeah, we can get to Charlotte. We have a direct.

Charley Burtwistle:

We can get there. Yeah.

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah. Yeah.

Charley Burtwistle:

No, that’s awesome. Could you talk a little bit more, so how long you’ve been involved in those and what’s kind of like the meeting cadence? Obviously, you just said people pour information in, use them as reliable resources a lot, but what’s the frequency, or give an overview for … I think a lot of our listeners, and something that Zach and I have seen is a growing trend is people want to get more involved and they’re not really quite sure how and something Buildertrend is trying to help solve and why we wanted to have you on the podcast today. But what does that kind of look like at a high level and what’s the cadence?

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah. I’ll give it to you in twofold because it’s very different. One of the things that I’m trying to do here locally with our HBA is to get everybody to understand that we’re all on the same team. There’s plenty of work here to go around and we’re in a competitive market for what we’re doing and the sort of product that we build. The market is competitive, but it doesn’t have to be cutthroat.

There should be a support system around there for us both sharing trades and sharing information. My real goal there is to, number one, is to get more of our builders involved in our local HBA. We’ve got a lot of members. We need more guys that are actually involved and truly understand what the HBA is doing for them from a political standpoint, from a support standpoint.

I mean, I know we were chatting earlier, it was 28 degrees here this morning in North Carolina, which is crazy for us, but we had all the tree huggers in Congress. They’re trying to pass an energy bill to move our ceiling insulation to an R 64. It’s currently R 68. The ROI on that is a hundred years. It would take you a hundred years to make your money back on those energy savings in our climate.

Well, our HBA state HBA fought it. We fought that. The governor vetoed our bill, and then we got a super pack and overturned it. I mean, the amount of money, energy, insanity that the HBA just saved all of the builders in our state is astronomical. I need to make sure all of our local guys know that, and they’re participating in supporting because of that. That’s on that side.

On the builder 20 side, it’s very different because we’re not in any sort of competition. We’re all kind of doing the same thing, but we’re in completely separate markets. Our meetings are in person twice a year. Our group actually does a monthly Zoom call, where we just sort of check in and do 911s. If somebody’s got, “Hey, I’ve got this situation happening, whether it’s with a municipality, or a client, or a trade or whatever,” we’re all just completely sharing our insights, experiences, all of that.

That’s our monthly, and then we meet twice a year at one of the locations of our builders. We were just up in Chicago with Greenside Design Build in September, and our fall meeting is always about marketing. We’ll spend a couple of days talking about marketing. We’ll bring in some experts in that industry to talk to us about it. Because there’s 18 or 20 companies sharing that expense, we can bring in some pretty high-level folks that individually we couldn’t do. That’s pretty amazing.

Then our spring meetings are always financials, and it’s a complete open book. We basically filet ourselves open for all the groups. We bring in an independent to come through, and actually we go through every single company’s financials from A to Z over three days that we’re together. It’s an encouragement for folks that are crushing it. Then there’s also like, “Hey dude, why are you giving it away?”

Zach Wojtowicz:

Right.

Sean Gallagher:

“Why are your margins so bad?” What’s happening and that sort of thing. We had a guy in our group who was … He’s a semi-custom guy, so a little bit different than most of the group, but he had something like 22 contracts that he signed during COVID that he couldn’t build for what the contracts were. It’s a great company with a great name. He’s like, “I don’t know what to do. I can’t just walk away from these guys.” We’re like, “Hey, you’ve got to sit down with these clients. You can’t build these houses. You’re going to be broke. You’re going to be out of business.”

We were able to coach him up, all of us collectively, and encourage him. He went down, he had 24 meetings with the clients face-to-face in the office and just said, “Hey, here’s where we are. We’ve got to renegotiate, or I’ve got to let you go.” He had 22 successes out of those 24.

Charley Burtwistle:

Wow.

Sean Gallagher:

If he was on an island or completely on his own, and in that situation, he’d be flipping burgers today. He would not have a construction company. But it’s just that level of just honesty and support, caring and compassion for each other that just makes the value is insane.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s an amazing story. I’m thinking that’s probably really scary initially, when you join those groups because being fileted as you put it.

Sean Gallagher:

Oh, terrifying.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. It can’t feel good, but the trust that it builds with the people in the group, the results, obviously, a lot more confidence.

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah, in your interview. Yeah. If you want to join the group, and here’s the other thing, there’s obviously, there’s expense involved. It’s not cheap. You go commit to spending three days with these guys and girls being honest about your business, you have no idea what you’re going to get.

Charley Burtwistle:

Right.

Sean Gallagher:

Then at the end of that you’re like, “Well, goodness gracious, I hope they like me. I hope they let me in.”

Zach Wojtowicz:

Is that how it works? You have to, is there actually, is it 20? There’s a limit. You can only have 20 in?

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah. 20 is the limit. More than that. It’s just, it’s too hard because then the level of accountability goes down, the level of participation goes down. 20 is the limit. We like to keep our group around 16, 17, so that we’ve always got room to bring somebody in that we find or come across that’s a superstar.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. What is the best way for someone who maybe is a Chuck in a truck and wants to become a boutique builder to find these networks and communities that could help support them?

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah. The National Home Builders Association is the way to go, and you’ve got to belong to your local in order to get into the national. But if you get into the local and then you get into the national and then you just submit an application for 20 club. But if you’re doing the things like IBS, the International Builders’ Show, if you’re doing things like that, there’s plenty of contacts there.

There’s actually, there’s a 20 Club room. If you’re a member of a 20 Club, not necessarily ours, but whatever 20 Club you’re in, you’ve got access to that room. They’re always doing special presentations there, whether it’s accounting or job management or contract law. But then there’s also custom builder room where you can get into the custom builder or remodeler’s council. There’s tons of information available. If you’re looking for it, you’re going to find it.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, that’s awesome. Just talking to you, I can tell, and you referenced this a little bit as well, is just having that growth mindset is so important. It’s like the resources are right there, and they’re offered to you. It’s just a matter of being hungry for it and taking advantage of it and admitting that you don’t know everything and that no one knows everything, but collectively, everyone knows everything.

That’s a super awesome resource. It’s honestly kind of inspiring just to listen to you because Zach and I can take that same sort of mentality to the work that we’re doing as well. It’s just cool to see the industry change and shift towards offering more and more of those things. I’d be interested in your perspective of, or how have these communities and builder groups and things like that evolved from when you first started? When did you first kind of get involved?

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah. You guys, this may be an opportunity for you to edit this out, and it won’t bother me, but it may bother you. When you get into these things, and I’ll take my local HBA. As soon as I got out on my own, I was like, OK. I really got no idea. I got really no idea what I’m doing. I can build a house, I can put all these pieces together, but navigating building permits and municipalities and local laws, employment contracts, insurance, all of these things, I have no idea.

I joined the local HBA very early on, but when I got in it, the feeling was I was like, “Man, this is kind of an old boys club.” Here’s this kid. Basically I was a kid, 25 years old, 26 years old, and they’re like, “Here’s this kid.” I’m in there with these guys, and I’m from the north, and I was a little bit stronger from the north 25 years ago. It’s these older southern guys that have been doing it their way in what was a small market at that time.

It was tough to cut my teeth in it, but luckily I stuck with it, found some folks that I could really be like, that I could really trust and develop a level of comradery with. That helped. But yeah, I mean it’s scary. Then kind of what you were talking about earlier, Charley, when you’re doing this and you’re like, “Okay, it gets scary when you’re trying to grow,” right? Because payroll happens. If you’re Chuck in a truck and you don’t get paid this week, you got a little savings and you can make that happen. But when you got payroll, you got payroll, and that’s a whole different level of pressure.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I think that’s an amazing story to anybody out there who maybe is breaking the industry to find those opportunities. It may be harder than you think, but they’re out there, and you can persevere and build that connection and find people that are in the same situation or will mentor you. I’m sure you remember it now, I can tell, and you probably have newer people in your chapter that you make it a point to make sure that they have that support system earlier rather than later. That’s an effect that carries on over time. I think for anybody who maybe is listening to this that’s like, “I know exactly what that feels like,” keep trying to find those outlets because there’s a good chance that there’s someone that will be able to benefit you and help you.

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah, and I mean there’s value to you in giving back, too, right? It’s like everybody should have somebody, a Peter or Paul and a Barnabas, somebody that is mentoring to you, somebody that you are mentoring to, and then somebody you’re working and walking beside. We had a guy that came and worked with us probably about eight years ago, nine years ago, something like that. Young, green, loved the industry, and when he came on with us, he said, “Hey, it’s my goal to eventually own my own business.”

We just said, “Hey, awesome. We’re going to support you all that we can. We just ask you to be completely transparent with us. No shady stuff, nothing like that.” We supported him completely. We paid for everything that he needed to get his education to get his builder’s license.

We held his builder’s license for a few years and then he came in and said, “Hey, I’m getting ready.” We were like, “Awesome. Here’s your workload. These are when your projects are finishing up, and we’re going to bless you, and we’re going to encourage you.” He’s been on his own now four or five years, something like that. He’s still a great friend to me. He’s actually my vice president in the local HBA, and we refer work to him all the time, and it’s really good. I love to see him excited about the industry and thriving, and he’s thriving. He’s crushing it. He’s doing a great job.

Charley Burtwistle:

That’s awesome to hear. What a cool story, and I think, I mean just hearing you talk, there’s a ton of advice, not just for new individuals trying to break into the industry, but existing professionals that are looking to pivot or grow or learn more or become better. I think everything you’re saying is just gold for people listening out there. I hope they take advantage. The one thing I’d say is shameless plug for Buildertrend is, I mentioned previously we’re trying to help grow that community in not just the Omaha area, but across the nation.

There are opportunities. If you are a Buildertrend customer, reach out to your coach and see if there’s something coming up. We have Buildertrend University classes every month. We have Builderbond events. We are going out to IBS, like you referenced in a few months. There’s some more, I’d say low pressure opportunities to go out there and make connections and talk to professionals as well, too. If you’re a Buildertrend customer or not, call us, and we can help point in the right direction.

Sean Gallagher:

I’ll plug you right because we had four years in our office in our conference room a giant whiteboard and all gridded out, client’s names all down the left-hand side and then blocks of weeks. We would have four weeks blocked out in that calendar, and the calendar was kind of a running. So, you’re in the second week, you get through that, you erase that column, and then the fifth week becomes the first column. It’s like a rolling, and it was so hard for me to give that up.

We took it down. I actually put it in storage. I was not convinced that we weren’t going to go back to it, and we took it down, and we put this 72 inch television screen up on the wall and hooked Buildertrend up to it.

Charley Burtwistle:

Oh, that’s awesome.

Sean Gallagher:

But I mean, that was not an easy thing to do, right? Because you like, “Okay, my system’s not perfect, but it’s my system, and it works.”

Charley Burtwistle:

It works.

Sean Gallagher:

For us to be like, “OK, we’re making the move and it’s going to be painful,” and it’s painful. I’m not going to pretend that it’s not. It’s painful to get in to make the move, to create all the templates, to code all of your code costs to match with QuickBooks. It’s painful, but good golly, it’s so worth it.

You guys may or may not know this, but we just had Shelby in here with us two or three months ago. Like I said, we’re using Buildertrend probably I would say today, 90% of it’s power. We’re not super users, but we’re damn close. We made the investment, again, that’s not cheap, but we brought Shelby in. She spent three days with us and just helped us clean up some processes and techniques and that sort of thing to make us so much more efficient.

But again, it’s the same thing. You got to slow down. We took three days out of building houses for learning. Getting yourself to that point where you’re willing to make that investment, that’s also hard too. But again, super useful. I know that there’s other software out there and you can probably do it with any software out there, but we’re in with you guys and we’re really pleased with it.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I love it. Yeah, Shelby actually reports to me now, so I’m extremely happy to hear. This is the second time she’s gotten a shout-out on “The Building Code.”

Sean Gallagher:

Yeah, so she’s trying to get us to come, I think it’s called Super User, right?

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah.

Sean Gallagher:

She’s like, “You got to come out to our Super User program.”

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s awesome. That’s amazing. Sean, we could go for another hour. I got a lot of other hanging questions, so we always like to extend the invite. You’re always welcome back on “The Building Code.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Absolutely.

Sean Gallagher:

Awesome.

Zach Wojtowicz:

We really appreciate being here.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, thank you so much for your time and wisdom. This was a great episode. Yeah, just thank you very much.

Sean Gallagher:

No, thank you guys. I appreciate it. I was like 30 minutes, man. What am I going to talk about for 30 minutes? It feels like we’ve been on for three minutes.

Charley Burtwistle:

Flies by. Well, until next time. Definitely let us know if you do decide to come out to the Super User thing, Zach and I will be here. It’d be great to meet you in person.

Sean Gallagher:

Awesome.

Charley Burtwistle:

Sweet. Thanks, Sean.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Thank you, Sean.

Sean Gallagher:

All right, cheers fellas.

Zach Wojtowicz:

We just had Sean Gallagher of Jasper Homes in here talking a little bit about builder community and boy did we hit the treasure trove.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, that was incredible. I’m not even going to wait for you to ask me what I thought. I’m just going to jump in because …

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, wow. Just cutting in. Whatever.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, no, I loved it. Sean was incredible. I think it’s a recurring theme, kind of coincidentally that the last few guests that we’ve had on here have continued to kind stress the importance of community and some of the examples that Sean brought up about issues people were going through and problems they were trying to solve and being able to lean on that group, bringing in your financials and diving in. The ability to get experts across the field, pooling those resources together is just …

I can understand how you can survive and honestly thrive, how you can do as a business without it, but the level that you can take your business and your own learning and your understanding and just knowledge through a group like that is just through the roof. Yeah, incredibly beneficial. Not just hopefully for our listeners, but also for me as well.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, it’s kind of like before we jumped on air today, we were kind of joking about something that we launched that you were like, “That’s awesome.” I was like, “I stole the idea.” It is very similar, you just don’t know what your blind spots are, and someone out there has probably come up with cool solutions to problems that you’re having and can give you a lot of insight in how they addressed it. He talked about that with his experiences about having someone whose books were not in a good place and getting out of that.

Charley Burtwistle:

Right.

Zach Wojtowicz:

It’s a lot of relief that’s tangible just by building a connection with another person who knows what it’s like to be in your shoes. That really stuck with me and it’s really exciting to hear builders share more and more of those experiences. We’ll leave it at that. We’d love to have Sean back on “The Building Code” to talk a little about some other things he does because very active in the Charlotte community.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Sean, thank you so much for your time. Listeners, we love you. Thank you so much for liking, subscribing. I’m stealing Charley’s thunder today.

Charley Burtwistle:

That’s okay. You’re killing it.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. We’re just going to end this outro. I’m Zach Wojtowicz.

Charley Burtwistle:

And I’m Charley Burtwistle.

Zach Wojtowicz:

We’ll catch you next time on “The Building Code.”