Doing more good: How giving back can bring your construction team together

Zach Wojtowicz:

Welcome back to “The Building Code.” I’m Zach Wojtowicz.

Charley Burtwistle:

And I’m Charley Burtwistle.

Zach Wojtowicz:

So good to be back in the studio. It’s winter time. It’s the most wonderful time of the year. The whole shebang.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, it’s a beautiful, crispy, 20 degrees outside today. But we did just have our quarterly town hall last night, so feeling very motivated after that.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Super hydrated.

Charley Burtwistle:

Super hydrated, absolutely, ready to get back to work and go get after this next quarter. But it starts in the podcast studio. Zach, who do we have?

Zach Wojtowicz:

Where you and I really make our impact.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, where we drive the most revenue for the business.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, so it is that time of year, and this is a great time to reflect on your team and so, we’re bringing on Joe Christensen from Cardinal Crest Homes, longtime podcast attendee. He’s been on many times. I don’t even know how many. And it’s exciting that we get to talk to him about what’s been going on with his business, and we’ll get to surprise him that …

Charley Burtwistle:

We’re going to be at the builder show this year.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s right.

Charley Burtwistle:

Absolutely. You hit the nail on the head, Zach. I feel like the past couple years, obviously, the construction industry has been crazy. We’re getting into this time of thanks and holidays. So, how do you ensure your team’s doing all right? How do you make sure they’re getting the most out of their job that they can be and everyone’s staying happy and productive?

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. Well, without further ado, let’s get Joe in here. Joe, welcome back to “The Building Code.” Second round. Cardinal Crest Homes, Kansas City. Wait, actually. Fourth time? I’m being told I was wrong. Fourth time on “The Building Code.” Is that right?

Joe Christensen:

I think it’s the sixth.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Sixth time on “The Building Code?” Wow. Killing the intro right from the beginning. Welcome back.

Charley Burtwistle:

For our new listeners out there who haven’t caught one of the previous five episodes, apparently, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got started into construction. And then Cardinal Crest Homes as well?

Joe Christensen:

Yeah. Joe Christensen. Been in construction for a while. I’m 40 now. That’s the milestone of your life, right? I turned 40 now, so I guess I can sound like an old man. But I’ve been in construction, I think since an early youth. A young lad running around the hills of Utah and Missouri. I got in it early because my dad was just a hands-on guy. And I got five brothers, and we did everything ourselves. We called the contractor last after we screwed things up. So, I’ve always grown up around just doing work with our hands. We had some farm land, and when you work on a farm, you do everything yourself. You don’t call anybody, like I said, until it’s screwed up so much that you can’t fix it. And then eventually I got my first job in construction, was actually with an asphalt company. Before that, this is a long intro, I hope you’re ready for this, by the way.

Zach Wojtowicz:

No, this is great.

Joe Christensen:

Before that, back in the day before the internet was big enough to send big plans over email, before AOL could really handle that bulk of a hundred megabyte, 250 page plan, they used to have these things called runners in Las Vegas. I used to run plans to different sites from the printers. Or not just from the printers but from one office to another, to a subcontractor, to a site, because they had nobody else. So, there was a lot of … I struggle to say this word every time, so you guys can make fun of me, couriers.

Charley Burtwistle:

A courier.

Joe Christensen:

That’s the word. That was like the first time I’ve said it right, so I’m actually proud of myself right now. So, it was a fancy word for courier, but you were a runner. And they would do it for legal firms and for contractors. So, I did get into that. That was kind of cool job when you’re in high school student. But then I worked in asphalt in Las Vegas, and that’s a horrible job. That’s just like you’re in the trenches of hell itself in Vegas and then it’s hot.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I was saying, great place for it. The desert of Southern Nevada.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah, it’s great that I started there, and I happened to still want to continue the pathway.

Zach Wojtowicz:

It could never get worse. It will never get worse than this.

Joe Christensen:

You start at the bottom. I was like this, there’s only good things from there. I did lots of crazy stuff in Vegas. I mean at one point …

Charley Burtwistle:

I think a lot of people do.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. What stays there, stays there for a reason.

Joe Christensen:

I didn’t even catch what you’re saying until way late. Lots of crazy stuff.

Zach Wojtowicz:

So many.

Joe Christensen:

Most of it’s locked away in their little stage they have for all the … Well, whatever. So, lots of little careers, different things. Worked for different subcontractors. Eventually got a job as the GC and decided I wanted to get a construction management degree and did that. Went to UNLV for a while, eventually went to BYU and graduated with a construction management degree. And that’s where I actually met my business partner, and now it’s starting to sound like a love story. So, we met. He was across the hall from me, locked eyes. And we were crazy enough to think that it was a smart idea to start a company in … I was a little older at that point. I had gone back to school. I was 29, excuse me, and at that time, 2010, the market was trashed from the 2008 crash.

And so, we ended up deciding, yeah, let’s start Cardinal Crest in 2010 and go for it. I was married but no kids, and he was in the same boat. And so, we said, well, we’re at another, we talked from one low point, the bottom of the asphalt, which was legitimately hell. Then there was another low point, which seems to be maybe the little theme of my life, but onto 2010, we decided … There were no jobs for residential construction at that time. I did get an offer to be a draftsman, because I drew a lot of plans at that time and learned Revit architecture, for a home builder in Utah. But the salary was legitimately, I think the offer was like $32,000 at the time, a year. And I was like, I could work for The Home Depot and then do remodels on the side and make more money than this. Why would I do that?

So, those were the jobs that were being pushed around that were just really bad, and I’d already done a lot of labor stuff myself. So, anyway, 2010, we started this puppy with a couple of remodels and some basement finishes, and we were able to pool enough money together from crazy hard money and other loans to actually start a model home. So, that’s how we really kicked this off. And I don’t know how many times I’ve shared that through different podcasts about our story, but it is an interesting part because we took a ton of risk at the time. And I think it’s important to think about, because we’re entering in a different era in this next year or two that we’ll have, lending has gotten tight again. And in 2010, nobody would load me money. Let alone because I’m coming out of college with little experience like a business owner.

So, we actually found some creative ways to finance it. Risky at the time, for sure, but it paid off. And sometimes it’s the way life goes. You got to take a risk and put it all out there and work backwards from there with what you have. Because no one was going to lend me money at a decent rate, so I’d had to go some hard money and some ridiculous rates, but I had to work backwards and make it cheaper in other ways or less expensive to self-perform more work or figure out a way to still build a house. So, built that first home … This story’s getting long. Built that first home, and then from there things just kept getting better and better.

Never would’ve thought in 2010 would we’d be building 15 homes a year, $20 million plus in revenue a year, easy, and where we are today to have an office, to have 10 people on staff plus a commercial division. It exceeded my wealth expectations, because in 2010 it was just like, geez. This thing everybody was so down in the dumps of housing, because they had legitimately bottoming out from 2010 to 11. I think home prices actually bottomed from, statistically, when you look at the graphs, maybe 2011, 12 was the official bottom before it rose. So, that’s the long story. So, maybe you could cut out some of that.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I was just about to ask now, so when are you guys breaking into the lucrative asphalt market? Really just bring this thing full circle.

Joe Christensen:

You know …

Zach Wojtowicz:

You never know.

Joe Christensen:

Never say never.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. It’s kind of stock homes. I kind of miss it. The desert, the asphalt, the whole …

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. I’ll take a trip to Vegas with you, Zach, if you want.

Zach Wojtowicz:

No, well, rumor has it that maybe …

Charley Burtwistle:

Actually, all three of us are going to be in Vegas.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, maybe we’re all going to make some bad decisions on …

Joe Christensen:

Take some night jobs.

Charley Burtwistle:

I’ll bring some asphalt.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. Hey, could you show us the old stomping grounds in the asphalt center and just really see if your work has held up over the last 10 years? Actually, I think you telling your story is a great segue into what we wanted to bring you on today, was talk about your team and what it takes to actually grow a team and have a great team. And so, it really helps set the context of, you obviously took a risk, started a business, and I have a feeling that that’s why you value your employees as much as you probably do. Because it was just you and it helps you really appreciate it. So, we at Buildertrend as well try to really embrace a positive workplace. They give us a ton of perks for working here on top of free food and the bar if you ever come to BTU. I’d love to hear your perspective on how you prevent things like burnout or toxic workplace environment. Mental health. How do you handle that as a small business owner?

Joe Christensen:

Oh, man. First, I’ll tell you it’s hard. Because the crux of a small business, and even a lot of businesses, I would bet you the founders of Buildertrend would even say the same thing, until they found maybe the right key players, is that you sometimes feel, because I say that because Buildertrend, you guys are, it’s a big business now. But the crux of a small business is that sometimes you feel, and you have to learn and almost reinvent the wheel sometimes, until you get to a point that you’re asking the right people the right question and getting the right answers, right? Because you’re too nimble and small and don’t have enough money to just pay a consultant the first year or two. And there are great companies that are starting to come up that have these consulting fees and consulting programs that are getting a little bit more nimble and maybe intro into these smaller businesses.

But the first couple years, you have to learn some hard lessons. And I think it’s twofold. One, maybe you don’t think you can afford a consultant or a mentor or whatever. And two, sometimes that’s just life. You’ve got to learn the hard lessons. That’s why it brands it into your body, and you’re like, okay, I’ll never do that again, because that sucked. And I’ll make sure of it, and I’m going to do what … So, I’ve learned a lot of lessons with employees. And this year is tough. I haven’t seen numbers, but I would bet you a lot of people have probably shifted gears out of construction. I don’t remember a more difficult time in construction ever. In 2008 to 2012, yeah, the market was tough. But what’s wild is in 2013, or maybe … I started this house in 12, I built a full-fledged custom, beautiful home, crazy details in five and a half months because I got so many quality craftsmen to show up at that house, because there’s no work.

Right now, we’re in a time that everybody has been so pushed to the max, and so many subcontractors and laborers and craftsmen have left the market from the last crash, that now we’re dealing with, we were, with such a small labor pool and such a demand of housing that it’s pushed everybody to the absolute limits. And so, the things you were talking about, mental health, how to rejuvenate your love for construction. I think everybody could probably get in a room, every contractor, subcontractor, and be like, hell, yeah. This sucks this year. These last two years, maybe the money sounded like it was going to be good, but it has been brutal. So, I think it’s an important topic. I’m just setting that premise, and I think everybody would agree that … And I’ve had people quit. And I’ve had people actually move industries because it’s tough. Now, that’s my premise. Now, let’s get into the nitty gritty.

Here’s one hard lesson I learned. You as a boss, you never … At least I didn’t. It took me a long time to realize, hey, Joe, you’re the freaking boss. So, when you say, hey, that was a dumb idea, I could have said it just like that, pretty soft, hey, that was kind of a dumb idea what you did. That carries a hundred pound sledgehammer with it. And I could be super chill. And just like I said, hey, that was a dumb idea, and I said it in front of everybody, all of a sudden that sounds like … And I’ve said that or said things like that, maybe a little more intense, I’m being lighter with the podcast.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, be nice to the podcast hosts. We’re sensitive.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah, right.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Especially Charley.

Joe Christensen:

But I’ve done those things, and people have come back and been like, you embarrassed me so bad in front of everybody. And you’re like, bro, I was just telling you. That was not a good idea. And you’re just running a gun inx, and you don’t realize, wow. Etiquette. I can’t correct people in front of other people. I want to, and supers can do that and managers can do that. But the boss, as soon as your team starts growing, you have to really … I got that visualization of Harry Potter and the sorting hat. I’m not a huge Harry Potter fan, but for some reason I just got that. That you are now knighted the boss. And it’s hard to really knight yourself like, I am the commander in chief. What I say, people listen.

And I’m not trying to sound like ultra-humble, but it was hard for me to really be like, okay, that’s my role, and people want to hear what I say, and they all like me and listen to me because I’m the boss. Not just because that they think I’m a cool guy, but it’s because I’m the boss. And so, I think one is being super careful on how you correct people, how you treat people openly in public and how you correct them.

The one-on-one time, I really have learned over the years is super important. People crave that from their boss, and it’s not like they’re needy, but people just want to know what are they supposed to do and when are they doing it wrong and when are they doing it right? And they want to know those things in private, so they can have job satisfaction. And I’m sure you guys could speak to that, too. Everyone can. When you don’t have job satisfaction, you feel like the clients don’t like me, some contractors are really tough right now, because their projects are delayed. And if you can’t find satisfaction in your job, you’re going to quit. You’re going to move on.

And I’ve seen that happen in our industry right now, that people are like, jobs are delayed, they’re over budget and they’re really difficult to get done. And if your boss is also yelling at you, why would you stay? I know we’re passionate about construction, but you’ve got to find the silver lining. And so, we try really hard to celebrate the small wins and to try to not sweat the small stuff and move on. Correct it, but be like, okay, it’s time to move on. You asked three questions, and I now forgot the other two.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I have a habit of asking multiple layered questions. That’s one area of improvement, boss, of where I could get better at my podcasting.

Charley Burtwistle:

That was a dumb question, Zach.

Zach Wojtowicz:

My marketing friends are looking at me like, see. Told ya.

Joe Christensen:

You dog. You flipped that on me.

Zach Wojtowicz:

No, that was a great answer to the questions of about how do you promote positivity, and I think availability of the leader is really important. I know, not to humble brag about myself. I am really busy. I make an hour for every one of my employees and my team a week, which is a significant investment. But I feel like, similarly, it gets them the transparency they’re looking for. The availability, because then I know if I miss them in the week, I have that time. We can always shorten it, but I have noticed big productivity boosts from them when I put the time to spend with them. So, I think that’s crucial to really getting people to feel like they’re part of something or they believe in the person who’s leading them and not just on an island, when we all have a lot of stuff going on, even internally at Buildertrend.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. To kind of piggyback off that, Joe, I had a question for you. You’ve been around since 2011. You started your love story with your roommate, founded the business. Obviously, you guys were close and had that trust and connection to go through this, but …

Zach Wojtowicz:

What was in that dorm room? Love was in the air.

Charley Burtwistle:

As you grow your team out, I think you said you had 12 full time or maybe 11. How do you ensure you go from working with your best friend who you trust to hiring people to work for you and growing a team out. How do you keep that close collaboration and that trust to actually feel like a team and not just an employer?

Zach Wojtowicz:

I love that question.

Joe Christensen:

That’s a great question, wow.

Charley Burtwistle:

Thanks, guys.

Joe Christensen:

Well, I will piggyback. First and foremost, I think you’ve got … One, you’ve already said it. We’ve already talked about the one-on-one time is super important. I think to create … As cheesy as it is, because the buzzword for company culture has been around for the last decade or two about trying to find what company culture is.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Bonus points for synergy.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah, right. And there’s books about it. I can’t remember what the book was called, the Zappos guy book I read, that he talked … I can’t remember what that book is called. Anyway, but what I do think, something you can’t fake in company culture is that you actually have to care about your employees. If you don’t, then you can have all the greatest company culture, you can be clashing with people. I say clashing, but you can have these run-ins with people, you can spend time with them. But if you actually don’t care and there’s a feeling of I am just a peg in the hole or a hammer hitting this nail until this job’s done, they will sniff that out quick. People do that. We’re all very great human beings at being able to spot a fake. And I think, first and foremost, you have to care.

And once you care and say, hey, I’m taking on this person, this is their career. Everyone wants a career. People want stability. Nobody wants to move from job to job. So, what are you doing as a boss to make sure, or an owner of a company, to make sure that, one, they’re taken care of, and they have a vision, your vision aligns with their vision. And so, I look at that and I hear that question and I look back and go, the first employees I brought on, they believed. I sold this vision hard. Because one of them, my office manager, I interviewed him in the town home in Kansas City that I was renting in the basement that was unfinished. And there was little tiny windows that were really bad. There was no daylight. We were just officing out of my town home. And there would be mornings that I would forget to unlock the front door, and they would be texting me like, “Hey, could you let us in?” And my wife would answer, and it was awkward.

And he was a believer, and I think he sensed Adam and I’s genuine care for people. And over the years, we have continued to make him a believer by putting our money where our mouth is. Supporting him and his family, having him see that this is a career, something he can enjoy and make money at and have other benefits and share in the successes and get passionate about things. So, I think, one, it can’t be a fake. And you got to really care about these people and understand that people are an asset. But I think at the same time, if you want people to stay long and believe in something, you have to have a vision, and you have to care about them and paint that vision.

And the right people will jump on board. Social media’s really good for that to help paint that vision. I was talking to somebody, a potential employee, today. And he’s like, “I feel like I already know you and you’re really honest on social media, and I really appreciate that, because I want an honest boss that can tell me what’s going on.” And it was actually really cool. I felt like we had the most productive phone call interview I’ve ever had because he follows me on social media. And we were just really open with each other. And how many interviews have you had, the first interview, you’re super open because he feels he already knows me.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Well, first off, sounds like he’s getting the job.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Hope this doesn’t air and mess up the timelines on that. The second thing, we actually saw your social media post, you did a video with John Beck to our producer about your team promotion and the fun of the build, and it was hilarious. I was like, I want to go hang out on the job site and just goof around and have a good time. So, I’m sure that really builds a lot of chemistry amongst your group. And you guys are pretty witty. I was cracking up, I’ll be honest.

Joe Christensen:

We definitely have fun with it. I sometimes get crap for the lightheartedness from people I know. They’re like, what do clients say when they see these videos of you guys goofing off? And I’m like, you know what? I think they realize that we work hard, we play hard. And trust me, any one of us can go on site and yell at people. That’s the norm in construction. I don’t think people are looking for that. They’re looking for something different. And if you can’t find a way to make things a little bit lighthearted and what we deal with every day, then I think you’re going to get burnt out. And that’s what the conversation we’re having right now.

Zach Wojtowicz:

What about, specifically … when is this aired? December sometime? I don’t know. We’ll say December sometime. Holiday seasons, do you guys do anything special for the team? Do you have a holiday party or any outings, any things like that?

Joe Christensen:

So, I will say, this is what’s crazy. We used to try to do, before the run up of these last two years, we were really good at doing monthly outings. And it was getting crazy. We were doing rock climbing. We would go to Top Golf. We’d go bowling. We’d just have an of every month, and Adam’s like the chief fun officer. He’s really good at planning and making sure it happens.

Zach Wojtowicz:

CFO. I want that job.

Joe Christensen:

But we got so busy, and people actually … Yeah. Like … chief officer of fun. So, people started getting stressed out about the outings and saying, you know what, can we not do this today? And it kind of sucked some of the energy out. So, we stopped that, and we just recently said we’ve got to pick it back up and maybe not just do it once a quarter. So, anyway, we try to have a lot of fun. And during closing days or the day after closings, week after, we like to have lunches all together. We take the team to lunch. I think it’s important. We’re having a holiday party, or yearend party, and we’re going to have a big, big dinner and talk about the company. But it’s important that different team members, as you grow as a company, to run into each other outside of, “Hey, interior designer, have we ordered the countertops? Why not? Where are they at?”

Because PMs will walk in and be super direct just like that. “Hey, my countertop company said it’s not template. What the heck? Isn’t that your job?” Now, they might not say it like that, but they’re running and gunning. And so sometimes, on here, we can talk really eloquently and nicely and politely, but in the heat of the day, it’s just hard. And so, I think those outings put the human back into construction sometimes. Because I think we get short with each other here, too. It’s just like we get close enough that we are our own family, and sometimes we can treat our own family worse than we treat other people because we’re used to them. We’re bold.

Even, I think that with my kids and my wife, sometimes I could be super bold and say something, just cut to the chase, because they’re … And we do that inside our own company. So, the more we can do those things, go out to lunch, laugh with each other, goof off and have fun, I think you start humanize again and be like, okay cool. That guy, that PM doesn’t really hate me. He’s just direct when he comes in the office because he’s only got 30 minutes in the office. He’s got to run back outside.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Do you guys do any community work to build team, or how do you guys give back to your community and your business?

Joe Christensen:

So, we’ve donated a lot in just cash. So, this year we are getting involved in this rebuilding. It’s called … I can’t remember what this exact charity’s called. We just did a charity event with them, and it’s like rebuilding Clay County, they call it, or something like that. And they have a day and we’re assigned a couple homes. They have a day or a couple weekends that you go. And you might be adding ADA ramps, doing new flooring, fixing up these people’s homes where they can’t do it themselves or can’t afford to do it. And so, I actually was given a great idea. We hit our 10 year mark, was it … Gosh, 2011? I guess last year. And I missed it by not doing it, but someone said, you hit your 10 year, this is the time to start giving back. Maybe you’ll make it your thing.

So, that’s how we’re starting it, and it’s coming up. And so that’s what we’re doing, a rebuilding Clay County event. And we want to make it something that we do every year. Because it’s something we do already. We know how to build, we know how to do those and be able to rub shoulders with each other while we’re helping out. So, we have not done a lot of it. And I’m kind of ashamed of that, because I feel like giving back like that and doing it as a company, I got the idea from somebody else, and they shared all their experiences that they do that with and how much they love doing it. And it’s such a big team building exercise.

And looking back, I’ve always just like, yeah, some charity wants to raise money, we’ll go there, we’ll donate. But to build company culture, I think there’s something special about being with your team and giving back to people who… And a lot of times some of these charities just need time. I know the money’s great, but I think if there’s anything right now, a lot of times people need the hands on to get things done.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I will say my favorite team outing that we’ve done the past three years, other than karaoke, of course, was we do a community garden once a year. And it’s eight hours, get there at 9 a.m., leave at five. We typically, the past two years, have picked the hottest day of the entire year to do it, unfortunately.

Charley Burtwistle:

I’m sure on purpose.

Zach Wojtowicz:

But it’s just awesome. From a team building, especially, it’s probably a little different when we’re sitting at a desk every day. But going out there and getting your hands dirty and giving back to the community, I grow far closer to my teammates doing that than going out to a bar or going top golf or something. So, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head right there.

Charley Burtwistle:

It’s really hard to force yourself, though, to do that again as a small company. Larger companies always have the leg up on that. And as a small company, you feel like, how do I have time for that? And it’s like everything. You don’t have time for anything. Nobody has time to work out every morning, but they just do it. They schedule it and it gets done and it becomes a habit. And that’s been my thought about, I’ve been really bad about it. And this year we’re starting to do that. And I agree. I think it’s something you just got to do. You make it part of it. And that’s company culture in general. You make it as something you do monthly, quarterly, whatever, and it becomes part of what you guys do all the time, or your team.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. Well, area of growth in 2023 for all of us. But speaking of which, in the turn of the year, we have the International Builders’ Show. We’ve talked about it a little bit in January. You excited? What topics are you going to be covering? We know you’re going to be joining our team on a panel. You did last year. If you remember, there was some tension because Charley wasn’t going to be there last year. And this year we’re shooting a podcast at IBS, so we’ll all get to meet. Yeah, put the sounds effects in, John. So, tell us, what are you looking forward to?

Joe Christensen:

I think the builders show is super fun. Especially since social media has become a big thing with contractors, too. And I say a big thing, there’s so many contractors. Some of the greatest contractors I know, and it’s still not on social media. But it’s super fun seeing colleagues that you just know on social media, and you get to see them once a year at the builders’ show. So, I really enjoy that part of it. Beyond the great food in Vegas. There is some awesome food, and I do enjoy that part as well. But seeing the other builders and joking and talking about the things they’re going through, I think really help. And it’s all part of this discussion we’re having right now, is that it really helps to hear from somebody who you feel has it all together.

Because there’s some really glamorous, speaking about … some really glamorous social media accounts there, that sometimes that’s the worst thing about social media is it looks like, man, that guy’s got his crap together. Look at those homes. Look at that project. That looks awesome. But when you get to sit down with people, and especially at a builder show like that, I try to be super open in those moments to say, yeah. Discuss the hard things, discuss the good things. Not try to go down a negative spiral, but just be real and say, what are the good things and what are the bad things? And that’s really cool. Seeing the vendors, learning about the new products is super cool. Getting to know your vendors if they’re there from your local areas is always fun. The education is awesome. I plan out my days on some of the education that I want, something like that. They used to call them master classes or something like that. Those were really cool. And then the panel will be fun. I had a really fun time the last time we did that panel.

And it was funny, still to this day, on that panel I shared about, I just got this gnarliest review on this home, and it was a beautiful home, but the client just ate us up. And I shared about that story, and so many people in that room looked up the review, because I told them. I was like, the review’s on there. They totally looked at that. And to this day I still get comments like, “Dude, remember that review?” Or, “I just reread your review, because I had a tough client.” I’m like, oh, I’m so glad I’m your bar of people ripping. It was funny. But I enjoyed it. I enjoyed just making those friendships and to see those people again. It’s become a good reunion every year.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, I’m excited to go back. It’ll be my second time. Charley’s first. That panel is going to be hosted by our CEO, Dan Houghton, and it’s going to be called Don’t Make My Mistake. It’s going to be at nine on the Tuesday morning session with Brad Levitt and Heather Tankersley. So, Joe, we’re really excited to see you down there. And we’re about out of time. Really appreciate you joining us here on “The Building Code.” And we will see you down in Vegas.

Joe Christensen:

Can’t wait. Hopefully everything that happens in Vegas is kosher.

Zach Wojtowicz:

We’ll be sure to leave a review about it on your social media.

Joe Christensen:

If not, put it there. That’s where everyone else airs their grievances. Building with me or not, that’s where they go.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. We really appreciate talking to you about how you build your team culture is really great tips for me and things that maybe we can continue to work on together in 2023.

Charley Burtwistle:

Absolutely. Thank you, Joe.

Joe Christensen:

Thank you guys so much. It’s been a blast.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Charley, my guy, we just had Joe Christensen from Cardinal Crest Homes. Always an absolute amazing experience because we have so much fun. He’s just so fun to joke … he just brings out the charm in all of us, and that’s awesome.

Charley Burtwistle:

I feel like he brought out the mean in you. You had several backhanded compliments and snarky remarks in that episode.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Whoa. Careful there, Charles. I warned you. It’s Friday. It’s a little spooky.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, you are in a Friday mood. No, Joe was great. To be honest, I was a little intimidated. I follow him on all his socials.

Zach Wojtowicz:

You do.

Charley Burtwistle:

They make a ton of awesome content, but he’s kind of a celebrity in my eyes. So, got through that interview without sweating too much.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Well, that’s what I love about Joe, is humility. I mean, he brings up his worst review on Google on Cardinal Crest.

Charley Burtwistle:

Well, you mentioned in the interview, but just in case people didn’t miss it, the panel he is on at IBS, what’s it called? Learn from My Mistakes or something? So, I think that’s going to be incredible. I’m excited I get to be there live this year. It’s going to be great. But his entire message, that entire interview was one of humility and empathy, honestly. It’s not just a business, it’s a family. And these are real people and real lives. And your goal should be to make your family as happy as possible. It’s not just work. You’re not just getting work done. You’re not just building houses. You’re not just yelling. And so, that was really refreshing to hear going into the season of thanks. And yeah, really enjoyed the interview, really enjoyed him. It was great. Those are my thoughts.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I wanted to give one last joke, but apparently you’ll interpret it as me being rude. So, on that, don’t forget to check out at the International …

Charley Burtwistle:

Well, now I got to hear the joke.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I don’t even remember it. My mother’s favorite quality of me is my snarkiness. So, it was something out of that. I don’t even remember. I black out before …

Charley Burtwistle:

All right, Zachary. Let’s wrap it up.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Don’t forget about the International Builders’ Show round table that we’re going to be hosting with Dan Houghton. Don’t Make my Mistakes, Charley just referenced it. 9:30 on Tuesday morning. Go check it out with Brad Levit and Heather Tankersley. We’ll check you out there. You guys have a great rest of your day. I’m Zach Wojtowicz.

Charley Burtwistle:

I’m Charley Burtwistle. We’ll see you next time.