Reaching remodeler goals in 2022 with Doug Howard

Zach Wojtowicz:

Hello, everybody. It’s “The Building Code.” Zach Wojtowicz here.

Charley Burtwistle:

And I’m Charley Burtwistle.

Zach Wojtowicz:

We’re back.

Charley Burtwistle:

We’re back.

Zach Wojtowicz:

New year, new me.

Charley Burtwistle:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

How many times have you heard that?

Charley Burtwistle:

Dozens.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Too many to count?

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. You also get a chance to do the good, the classic, “Oh, I haven’t seen you since last year,” so make sure you’re taking advantage of that.

Zach Wojtowicz:

This is Zach Wojtowicz signing out. I’ll see you later.

Charley Burtwistle:

Hey, I haven’t said it yet. I’m just saying if anyone out there-

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. It was a hypothetical?

Charley Burtwistle:

… yeah, wanted to …

Zach Wojtowicz:

All right, then.

Charley Burtwistle:

… I wanted to remind people that that was an option.

Zach Wojtowicz:

All right. I’m back. You can’t get rid of me.

Charley Burtwistle:

Who do we got on here today, Zach?

Zach Wojtowicz:

We’ve got Doug Howard from Remodelers Advantage. They’re a consulting group out of Linthicum, Maryland.

Charley Burtwistle:

There we go.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Which I love talking to consulting groups because they give us so much insight into the operational efficiency, the goal-setting processes, how to better your company. It’s the stuff that Buildertrend obviously has our own flavor to within the software, but these are industry experts. So I always just love to dive deep, and I’m sure Doug’s got a ton of great information for us to absorb today.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. The other cool thing too is the timing of this is perfect. Early January, got the full year ahead of you, like a perfect time for some new year’s resolutions, some goals. Again, talking with these consultant companies, as you mentioned, they work with hundreds of clients across the US, so they have a way of … this is what we’ve seen in this area, this is what we’ve seen in this market, this is how you should be thinking about your business and how you can grow it, and exceed expectations and break goals. So this should be a really, really awesome episode, and perfectly well-timed.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. Let’s get him in here. Doug, welcome to ““The Building Code.” To get started, tell us a little bit about what you do over at Remodelers Advantage.

Doug Howard:

Yeah. Thanks. No, thanks for having me. Yeah, my title is director of consulting, so in addition to facilitating some of our peer groups, our round tables groups, I get to do one-on-one consulting and coaching with remodeling companies all over the country, and then we do some onsite work as well, where we’re working with folks usually on a two-day format for things like strategic planning, succession planning and process improvement. So I get to spend all day talking about remodeling, in one form or another.

Charley Burtwistle:

There you go. Zach actually used to be an onsite consultant for Buildertrend. The last guest that we had on here was a data scientist, which is more my background, so I’m sure Zach will appreciate having someone that he can relate to a little bit more. Can you tell us a little bit about how Remodelers Advantage kind of got started?

Doug Howard:

Yeah, sure. Company got started about 25, 30 years ago, and it started as peer groups. So putting remodeling companies together in groups of 10, from different parts of the country so they didn’t compete with each other, meeting twice a year, with a package that they would submit ahead of time with financials, and org chart, and things like that, and because they were in non-com competing situations, each group kind of became the board of directors for each of the members in the group.

Doug Howard:

That grew over a long period of time. Took a little bit of a setback in the 2010, around the recession, grew back again after that. That’s the mainstay of what the company does. That’s the primary thing people know us for, but then we also have Remodelers Advantage University, which is an online resource. We have our consulting department that I head up. We do an annual summit, which is an industry event where we usually have 300 or 400, maybe a little bit more, remodeling companies in one place, and then we have a whole series of master classes that we offer that do training on everything from design and estimating to production, to budgeting, the whole gamut. Our mission is to light the path of greater success for motivated remodeling professionals, and we try to do that in a number of different ways.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That sounds incredible. It’s kind of the full gamut of what a construction company needs to be successful, huh?

Doug Howard:

Well, and that’s what really drives where the services come from.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah.

Doug Howard:

We talk to folks in the peer groups and it’s like, “Hey, we need more of this.” That’s really where the consulting grew out of, and the master classes as well.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Do you find a lot of companies having common problems, kind of … you mentioned initially it was regional, kind of stay out of each other’s backyards, but I’m sure there’s still … there are local issues they deal with, but at the end of the day, running a construction company, there are some common pitfalls that I’m sure you’ve seen time and time again.

Doug Howard:

Yeah. There’s a lot of similarity just in terms of growing a company, staffing it, leading first-time managers that have never been in management before, a lot of things that just even understanding the numbers and what drives profitability, and good production practices. The other thing is because the round tables are real time, they’re meeting twice a year, it’s really also kept us very up-to-date on things we couldn’t possibly have known about, like how people are reacting to COVID, or how the product disruption in the industry is really impacting folks. So we kind of get this real time recharge of information as we’re also navigating people through things that have always been part of growing a remodeling company.

Charley Burtwistle:

One question that I always love talking about or asking is just like kind of your typical customer. Are the people that you work with, are they people that have been in the industry for a long time and are kind of looking for a refresh? Are they … just started this business and trying to look how to get up and going? What are some of the companies that you work with typically look like?

Doug Howard:

Yeah, that’s a great question. We really have kind of three. I’ll give you kind of either ends of the spectrum, and then what we do mostly. We work with a lot of folks that grow their business to maybe … eh, maybe $600,000, $700,000 in revenue. They’ve done most of the work themselves. They don’t have much infrastructure, and they really want to grow into a company. That’s a lot of what I work with, even before they’re ready for the round tables program.

Doug Howard:

On the other end of the spectrum, we have folks that have been in the industry for a long time. Maybe they’ve even been with our round tables program years ago, but they come back. Usually, the driving factor there is the next generation is about ready to take over and there’s going to be a transition, whether it’s the next generation in terms of someone’s son or daughter, or the leadership team, or what have you. Then right down the middle, we have folks that are generally in the maybe $1.5 million to $3.5 million, $4 million range. Some higher, some lower, but that are really just knee deep in growing their company, trying to build profit year over year, looking for those best practices, and they’re pretty much exclusively interior home remodeling companies. We have pretty good coverage across the country. Yeah, so that’s most of who we’re working with day in and day out.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Got those awkward teenage-years companies, huh? Those are the-

Doug Howard:

Yeah, that’s right? Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

They’re doing well, but they just need a little more direction to really get to that next level.

Doug Howard:

That’s right. Yeah. Yeah.

Zach Wojtowicz:

How many customers are you guys working with now, or if you ballpark it?

Doug Howard:

Yeah. We have about 300 round table owners that are in our core program. We have about seven or eight groups, so 70 or 80 that are in our production management round table. Those are production managers. We have another couple hundred that are on our university, and then we have some of our consulting clients are in round tables, some are not. I’d say we probably, on a regular basis, are interacting with maybe 500, 600 remodeling companies.

Charley Burtwistle:

Wow. I’m super curious. Obviously, this would be an interesting interview at any given time, but especially in the past couple years, how kind of crazy busy remodeling companies have been.

Doug Howard:

Yeah.

Charley Burtwistle:

I guess the timing of this episode works well in our favor too, where it’s going to be released early January. How should these people think about kind of goal setting for the upcoming year when they’re seeing workloads that they’ve never seen before? I mean, the entire industry is kind of flipped on its head. How do you recommend people kind of level setting and saying, “Okay, here’s what we’re actually trying to accomplish to, as Zach put it, grow out of these awkward teenage years and be as successful as we can?”

Doug Howard:

Sure. No, that’s a great question. The biggest thing that we see right now is normally the pace of growth of a company was what you could sell. Right? A lot of companies right now are outselling by far what they can produce. Really, now things like production capacity, how do we grow it, how do we know what’s coming around the next curve, that’s a much, much bigger part of what we’re talking about. What I really try to do is get folks to think about growth in terms a five year plan. I always want to know where people want to be five years out. Even though people say, “Well, how can you do that in the crazy world we live in,” I will tell you the people that had five year plans as they were going through COVID, they at least knew how far off track they were.

Charley Burtwistle:

Right.

Doug Howard:

It was a really good rudder to bring them back in line. So we try to get that established, and then we look at where they are. I like to look at things quarterly, and I like to look at a monthly average for that quarter. When someone says, “I want to grow from say $3 million to $3.5 million in revenue,” I’m more in interested in that represents about $250,000 a month in work, and we’re going to grow to something that’s probably just a little bit closer to $300,000 a month. I try to look at … right now, we’re doing a lot of this, what do we have in the first quarter? What do we have sold? What’s in design? What’s in production? When do we get to that level? Usually, that level will grow over the year.

Doug Howard:

So if we need to average $250,000, we might be at $210,000 for the first quarter and $230,000 or $240,000 for the second quarter, on up into the other quarters. It’s a much more manageable set of questions. We can look at what’s going to drive production capacity. Hey, we need another small job, or we’re going to be finishing a big job, we need another one to start in May. It really translates all these numbers into something actionable, but the really cool thing about it is when someone grows at that pace, and each of those quarters has an escalation, when they get to the fourth quarter, all they really need to do is maintain that level for the next year and they’re going to go up in revenue again. They’re doing it in a very controlled and a very profitable way, as opposed to, “We’ve sold a bunch, let’s go build a bunch. Let’s go sell a bunch more, let’s try to fit it in.” It is really hard to stay profitable in that mindset.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I always love talking to the consultant … We get a lot of consultants on our podcast, and you guys lay out your steps and you just make it sound so easy. I could just … a builder when they’re trying to get their jobs done, and that’s exactly what they’re going through, is like, “I just got to sell, and I got to build.” Like, you take a step back, and there’s a process. It seems complicated, but there’s strategy. There’s steps to follow, it builds that foundation, and eventually it’s just what you do. That’s just how you run a company. Just takes-

Doug Howard:

Yeah. Translating all that information into actions is really important. One interesting phenomenon we’re seeing right now is most production, I think, over the years has been primarily driven by the order in which things are sold.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Right.

Doug Howard:

Right? You sell something, that goes in design, it gets to production, that’s the order it’s done. Now we’re seeing, because of product delays, type of projects, things like that, it’s much more about what’s the next thing that we can get into production, and how’s it going to fit that slot? I always tell people, predicting what the start date for a project used to be interesting information, and now it’s critical information because we need to work backwards from that date if we’re going to maintain those levels of production capacity.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I really like the … you pointed out the … having the five year plan is your baseline, that you’ll always want to be reevaluating. I want to dive a little bit deeper in that. When you are going through your five year plan exploration, do you see that through, or do you deviate off your five-year plan given the circumstances? How rigid are you when you’re consulting your clients to stick to … this is our five-year plan, this is what we want to do?

Doug Howard:

Yeah. I think when they set the goals, if they’re really meaningfully set, sticking to that is really, really important. A lot of people work really, really hard, and what they get out of it is just kind of what’s left over.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah.

Doug Howard:

I’m a big believer, if we determine what kind of money do you need to be making, how many hours do you want be working, and tell them … I want to predict as much of that five year model as we can, based on where they want to be, and then put the appropriate demand back on the business. What happens is during that process, as circumstances change, the strategies change, maybe the timing of certain things, but not the end goal. I always kind of give people the example, it’s like, if we were going to take a five day road trip, and we had to be somewhere that had a specific time and destination … one of my kids’ graduations, or wedding, or something like that. If we came out of the first day and didn’t get as far as we thought we would, we wanted to, the next day we’d leave a little earlier. We’d take a different route, drive a little faster, and if by day three we weren’t really close at all, we might turn in the rental car and take a flight the rest of the way.

Doug Howard:

Really, what comes up now is the tactics may change, the pace of things may change, but what we really shouldn’t be making the variable is where we’re going to be and when we’re going to get there. When we hold to that sort of level of discipline, then it’s a lot easier to kind of decide, “Hey, we need to ratchet things up a little bit here, or we need to take a different approach.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Well, that has to be pretty convenient and cool for you guys as well too, where … a lot of times, if people were trying to do this on their own, they may think that some of the issues that they’re running into are just issues that they’re seeing. Maybe they’re a material supplier, the delays that we’re seeing, I don’t know how to combat this, but you guys took this really cool approach where you kind of go group first mentality. It’s not just you, XYZ builder. It’s not just the market you’re in, this is … we see these same issues across the entire industry. You’re able to actually take the learnings that you found from one person and apply them directly to another person as well, too.

Doug Howard:

Yeah. Like I said, we’re continually getting updated with new ideas. A big part of that also is really being able to look at statistics because we get all that financial data. We have a lot of down in the details statistics. Victoria Downing, the president of our company, always likes to say that R&D stands for Rip-Off and Duplicate.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s hilarious. Whenever our guest brings up data or statistics, I always look at Charley because his eyes light up. He’s like, “Ooh, I want to see those reports.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Well, you are kind of speaking my love language there, Doug. Something I’m kind of curious about, and you actually kind of beat me to the jump there, is how you measure success once you kind of establish this plan. You’ve mentioned just total revenue at the year end, obviously that’s a bit more of a reactive measure. How do you … what typical things do you encourage businesses to kind of track and keep track of throughout the year to make sure they’re on the right path, and they’re making good distance on their road trip, as you put it?

Doug Howard:

Yeah. Yeah. We always want to make sure that we’re keeping a good handle on overhead. I think that’s one thing that’s easy to kind of get away from you, so we want that to be fixed. A big way that we do that is making sure that people are putting things into cost of goods that really relate to the fluctuations that go on in the field. So we truly have an understanding of what does it cost to operate this business, whether we do two jobs or 20 jobs. Second thing that’s really, really huge is things like closing ratio. You know, how much is our marketing doing for us? How much is that translating into the kind of business we want? Profit margin on jobs is huge. Some of that comes down to pricing, but also some of it comes down to how well we actually produce jobs and look at the job reviews at the end, and really learn lessons from that, take action on that.

Doug Howard:

That’s a big part of it, and then within the five-year span, there’s other things that we’re usually trying to accomplish. Maybe it’s reducing debt, or maybe it’s building out the org chart but maintaining profitability. Five years from now, maybe I don’t want to be doing everything that I’m doing right now, but when I get there, I don’t want to have to have given up what I was supposed to make in the meantime. One of the biggest challenges we find is lining up the financial side of things with the people side of things. So if someone will do a five year projection, that’s great, but it’s a lot more meaningful if you can also give me a five year org chart that shows who we’re going to need in the company, and can we afford it along the way to make that come to life.

Doug Howard:

That’s why so much of what technology can do is really let us game out those scenarios. What does that look like? How much capacity can a production team handle? What if we slightly improved margins? What if we slightly improved efficiency? That’s where it really starts to get to be fun, because really you can engage the whole team, give them really meaningful information, and everybody then starts to understand how they contribute to this five-year vision. That’s when you really get some of the best ideas, I think, to come out of your team.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. Not to go down a giant rabbit hole here, but I think that’s a big value that Buildertrend provides is now you have all the data stored and tracked in an easily accessible place. So if you wanted to look at what your profit margin was, you can actually go into a specific job and get all your inbound, outbound payments, see what you actually ended up there. You know, efficiency, lead, close rate. You’re the second guest in a row here now that’s made me pull out my pen and paper and jot down notes as we were talking to take this back to my real job too, outside of my freelancing podcast career. Yeah. Those are all just fantastic-

Zach Wojtowicz:

What’d you call R&D? What did you say Victoria called it?

Doug Howard:

Rip-off and Duplicate.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. Charley, do some R&D on the podcast, maybe things we could do better.

Doug Howard:

Excellent. Well, and it’s funny too, because I always tell people when you’re looking at financial information, I always want to ask three questions. What happened, what does it mean, and what are we going to do about it? Data is just data until we take it and ask those three questions, and then once it becomes actionable, that’s when it becomes really powerful. I always tell people, use that GPS model. You wouldn’t want a GPS that kind of … when you talk about a road trip, we want to know where we’re headed, and how we’re going to get there, and when we’re off track, but you wouldn’t want a GPS that told you where you were two hours ago. You want one that tells you where you are right now.

Doug Howard:

That’s the power of something like Buildertrend, where you can look at it and say, “Okay, this is not about waiting for month end financials and all those things. This is about where we are right now. What’s going on? What do we need to fix? And we’re going to do it before we find out we’re three hours off track on our road trip, and we might not have the time or money to get back to where we need to be.” We love when folks use that tool, and really embrace it, and really use all the facets of it, because each one of them, as you guys know, addresses another particular thing that’s going to keep that company on track, one way or the other, whether it’s marketing, or schedules, or whatever.

Zach Wojtowicz:

It all ties together. You’re bringing up some great insights that I love to get out and hear from the experts on how to kind of get this into the hands of our customers. One of the things that I know you wanted to talk about a little bit that we’re kind of just getting into, which is the technology piece of how a company can kind of navigate their business, and how does that feed into goal setting? So when you’re meeting with your customers, do you recommend to them, if they don’t have a technology solution, to find one? What does that process look like when you’re bringing on a company when they’re trying to set their goals and facilitating good technology adoption within your business?

Doug Howard:

Sure. Yeah. No, I think it’s a critical piece. I think it’s a critical piece if they’re going to be able to keep up with things. We definitely encourage folks to have project management software and make sure it integrates with accounting software. That connection between software products is so important, how they capture time sheets and things like that. One of the things that can be a real killer in terms of using information and even having good information is when you have five different things going on in five different systems. Sometimes you’ll see someone that’s got their marketing and CRM over here, and their bookkeeping over there, and their budget on Excel, and this stuff only works powerfully when it’s connected. So it’s tied together, and we see how one feeds into the other, or how our schedule change impacts capacity, or productivity, or any of those things. Even at the most simple level, just making sure that if you do your budget in Excel and you do your accounting, say, in QuickBooks that somehow those two get into the same system. Otherwise, you’re not going to know if you’re off-track.

Doug Howard:

The reason the GPS knows that is because it knows where you’re supposed to be and where you actually are. If that’s in two different platforms, then no one’s going to say, “Hey, wait a minute, guys. You’re not in the right place.” I think that’s a critical piece. There’s always the challenge of sort of the upfront training, and investment, and those kinds of things, but then once that system’s in place, the efficiency that comes out of it is tremendous, but mostly just really that early warning system of, “Hey, something’s not the way we wanted it to be.” I think most business owners, most remodeling company owners that we work with, they know what to do if they have the right problem put in front of them. It’s a lot of times just in the tremendous pace of work, or multiple projects, or maybe someone not having the information at the production level who really could make the right decisions. That’s when we get ourselves into trouble. I think it’s a critical part of anybody trying to execute growth in a long-term plan.

Charley Burtwistle:

Not to kind of put you on the spot here, but obviously the incredible pace that we’ve had in the past couple years, especially for the remodeling industry, is that something that you guys can’t anticipate continuing going into 2022? When you’re working with these companies to set their goals, do you encourage them to kind of shoot for the moon, kind of do a little extra than you would typically anticipate, or what are some of your thoughts on just kind of the industry as a whole, moving into this next year?

Doug Howard:

That’s a great question. I always tell people if I really know, I’d be really in very, very high demand, much more so than I am. Based on what we’re seeing, we’re seeing a lot of companies that have the better part of 2022 laid out, built out. Some folks actually are already taking projects into 2023. When we see the lead flow and things like that, and it’s always going to ebb and flow a little bit, my gut feel is we’re going to see a really strong 2022, and probably a pretty strong 2023. I think by maybe about this time next year, maybe a little later, we’ll start to see signs as to whether or not this may be a little bit of a bend in the road, or it’s going to continue strong.

Doug Howard:

My biggest message to folks right now is, if 2022 and 2023 are going to be strong, then let’s get things the way we want them right now. Get the team structured appropriately, get the systems in place, the processes cleaned up. I think people are going to look back at this period of time, even though it’s been crazy how we got here, and look at 2021, 2022 and 2023, and say, “You know what? During that period of time, I could have moved the ball forward, either in terms of profitability, debt reduction, how we operate, and I’m really encouraging folks not to miss this opportunity.” Whether ’24 and ’25 look like great years, mediocre years, or terrible years, I think everybody will have been well served to make the most they can out of their companies right now. Not just in terms of profitability, but in really getting the right talent, developing them, building just a strong organization.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Great advice. We have the pleasure of getting to talk to people who really know their stuff. Charley and I are always just sitting in wonder of like, man … keep going, what else do you want to give us there, Doug?

Doug Howard:

Well, I think the biggest thing we’re seeing right now, not only in terms of owners and keeping up with the pace of things, but even attracting the best talent is also being very careful about managing that work/life balance. Making sure, especially as they’re planning out the year, that people are getting time off, they’re getting time to refresh. We’re not burning them out, we’re not working them beyond their ability to deliver quality work. Sometimes that takes pacing. Sometimes it takes maybe slowing down a little bit, but I think really the companies that are looking to have good quality, strong culture, and even attract talent, because a lot of what we’re seeing right now is people making job changes, not just because there’s more money available or even necessarily benefits, but because they can find that money and benefits in companies that will really respect that they want to have more of a balance.

Doug Howard:

So I think that’s just one of those things that, as companies really look at where they are, it’s like, what can we do to reduce the stress level? What can we do to help retain talent? I think that’s going to be another hallmark of 2020. I think there’s going to be some shifting in the industry, and I think companies that really pay attention to that could find themselves in a much better situation in terms of their capacity.

Charley Burtwistle:

That topic actually just reminded me, before this, I was out on your website kind of poking around, and you guys have a ton of free resources out there too, with some of your podcast episodes, and your blogs, and things like that. I was actually looking at one, it was like … I think the title of it was “Bonuses and Incentives for Year-End Reviews,” so I was taking some notes there. I have my annual with my manager tomorrow, so I’ll have to use some of the suggestions that you guys laid out there to bring up to him. For anybody else listening to this that is curious about your company, Remodelers Advantage, what’s the best way for them to kind of start down this path? Should they just go out to your website, or what does that contact kind of look like?

Doug Howard:

Sure. Yeah. They can certainly go to the website, which is www.remodelersadvantage.com. Lots of resources there. People can reach out to me specifically, my email is just Doug@remodelersadvantage.com, and they can even get directly onto my calendar by going to www.fifteenminuteswithdoug.com. Yeah, even if it’s just in a very initial conversation where we learn a little bit about where they are in their process, size of their company, that kind of thing, we can always … whether it’s the next webinar coming up, or the next event, or maybe something on our university, it’s always fun to be able to take someone and help them make that next step. That usually helps them, but it also helps build our community as well.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Fantastic. Well, Doug, we’re about out of time. Thank you for coming on “The Building Code” to speak with us about your company and the great work you do. You just laid out how people can get in touch with you. That’s very gracious of you. Thank you for doing that. We hope you come back on “The Building Code,” but that’s all we got.

Doug Howard:

All right. Well, let’s hope we’re getting off to a good start for a new year, right?

Charley Burtwistle:

Absolutely. Appreciate it, Doug. Thank you.

Doug Howard:

Okay.

Zach Wojtowicz:

All right. We just had Doug Howard on “The Building Code,” talking a little bit about all types of fun things. Goal-setting, strategic planning, five-year plans. Really, really awesome stuff, maybe the deepest we’ve ever gone in the actual strategic planning of a construction company. I really enjoyed it.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. It was cool to listen to him talk. Again, with the consultants like him, just hearing their industry knowledge, and the same type of problems and ideas that we have every single day. They’re constantly seeing hundreds of people that they work with across the US, and all these different markets, and across the industry is fun. Seeing a lot of the assumptions that we have validated, and a lot of the concerns, and a lot of the things that people should be worried and thinking about also validated, but presented in a way of, “These are things that you can fix and things that you can improve on. Here’s how our company can help. Here’s how Buildertrend can help.” There’s just always a better way. I feel like that’s the common theme with a lot of these consultants, and Doug was right on par with that.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I saw you take a few notes.

Charley Burtwistle:

I did take some notes, yeah. I had all the different metrics that he said that people should be thinking about. I have closing ratio written down, profit margin, making sure you keep track of your overhead and keep that consistent there. Yeah, I did some R&D with Doug, and that’s … maybe a good T-shirt idea. I have not pitched a T-shirt for a while.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Less than a couple weeks?

Charley Burtwistle:

Less than a couple weeks.

Zach Wojtowicz:

It’s been a whole couple weeks, Charley.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, but Doug was fantastic, and super excited for everyone to hear this episode and get their 2022 off to a good start.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Absolutely. No better way to bring in the new year than with “The Building Code.” Zach Wojtowicz here.

Charley Burtwistle:

Great sign off, wow. I’m Charley Burtwistle.

Zach Wojtowicz:

We’ll catch you next time.

Charley Burtwistle:

See you.