Building for the extreme: Earthquakes with Bill Gray

Zach Wojtowicz:

Welcome to “The Building Code,” episode 124. I’m Zach Wojtowicz, here with Charley Burtwistle.

Charley Burtwistle:

I’m Charley Burtwistle.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I already said that.

Charley Burtwistle:

Just wanted to double down, make sure people know. We’re getting pretty late in our episode count. We’re veterans at this now.

Zach Wojtowicz:

At this point, you’d think that we’d be better at this. We’ve got to be competent. We’re doing fantastic.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, maybe we don’t say how many episodes we’ve had and let people think that we’re first-time, temporary podcast announcers for the rest of our career.

Zach Wojtowicz:

This is my one goal in my entire life. This is why it came to Buildertrend.

Charley Burtwistle:

Well, you do two podcasts.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Not bragging or anything.

Charley Burtwistle:

So, if anyone has an excuse it’s me. This is the one time I come in here.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, exactly.

Charley Burtwistle:

And you’re doing podcasts left and right.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, check out “The Better Way,” where I bring on other guest hosts with me, and then Charley and I are here on “The Building Code.” Charlie, who we bringing on today?

Charley Burtwistle:

We’ve got Bill Gray of LMC Building all the way from New Zealand. So, I think it’s about 9 a.m. over there.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Does that make it midnight our time? No it doesn’t. I’m just …

Charley Burtwistle:

I don’t think so. 9 a.m. It’ll be the next day, too, so it’ll be Friday morning. We’re stuck here in Thursday.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Time zones are wild.

Charley Burtwistle:

But yeah, he’s going to be talking about some of the challenges they face over in New Zealand, primarily earthquakes.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Is that a big problem in New Zealand?

Charley Burtwistle:

Compared to Nebraska, a huge problem. I mean, they get thousands of earthquakes a year, I think.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Ask him about that, just the amount of earthquakes. I’m just curious. I mean, they are down on the Ring of Fire in the Pacific Ocean, so there’s a lot of things happening there. So, we’ll have to get into what he has to do in order to prevent these things from destroying their buildings, I guess.

Charley Burtwistle:

Literally saving lives. That’s quite a bit of pressure to put on a home builder.

Zach Wojtowicz:

And it kind of ties into some of the things that have been going on in the United States, which is probably the inspiration of our episode today, is just natural disasters and building. We’ve had a few guests that talked about green builders, Bob Deeks, a few episodes back where we really got into net zero homes, and this is the other side, which is, the Earth’s going to do what it wants to do. We had that condo collapse down in Florida. That was more structural, but when one of the things you think about is all the different places you go, they all have to consider the environment they’re actually living in.

Charley Burtwistle:

And I’m super excited to talk to Bill on just how they account for that. And, obviously, right now, a timely topic. And we actually do have a couple of links that we’ll drop with the show notes that’ll be … Once again, they’re from constructiondive.com, which is a great website if you guys want to go out and get some news articles. But the collapse of that apartment building down in Miami, obviously, has sparked a lot of controversy about the building codes and should … These buildings, are they safe to live in? And another article we have talks about historically some of these giant collapses and building failures they’ve had and how they produced changes. How do they learn from it, what sort of new materials come about and how do they advance and make sure that something like that doesn’t happen in the future. So, luckily in the states that doesn’t happen very often, but excited to listen to Bill talk about something that happens daily over there for them and how they build with it.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, well let’s get him on here. Bill Gray, welcome to “The Building Code.” Bill, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background?

Bill Gray:

Oh, well, that’s pretty scary. I was just looking it up the other day that I’ve be building for some … Well, over 45 years. So, I’m the old one around here.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Got a little experience then?

Bill Gray:

Don’t know if it’s experience, probably a bit long in the tooth, really. But yeah, I’ve been out in and out of the building industry for that long, mainly residential in both Australia and New Zealand here. So, it’s been pretty interesting. What with earthquakes and stuff like that, we’ve learned a lot of stuff and there’s been a lot of changes. That’s what I’ve been doing for the last 45, 46 years.

Charley Burtwistle:

Absolutely. So, and I know we’re super excited to talk about some of the building challenges that you have with the earthquakes and how you account for some of those. Before we get into that, though, maybe tell us a little bit about the company that you’re at currently, so LMC building, is that correct? How’d that get started, how it’s grown, how’d you find yourself there.

Bill Gray:

Yeah, well, I came back from Australia back in 2015, and we shifted into this small town here of 2,500 odd people. And I banged into Luke, and Luke and Nicola chambers run LMC Building, and they started back in 2007. He was a one-man band back then, or one-man, one-woman band, and they ended up growing up to about … There’s 10 of us, so there’s a couple of apprentices and eight chippies working out and about.

Zach Wojtowicz:

What kind of construction are you primarily doing out there in New Zealand? Are you new home builder, are they multi family? Just give a little background about the type of construction that your company’s currently focusing on.

Bill Gray:

We’re mainly residential, but we are doing … When I say residential, that’s single houses. This is a tourist town here, so there’s a lot of holiday homes getting built, but also there’s a lot of people moving into the area just because it’s such a nice place to live. We’ve got to sea right next door and two Ks away on the other side, we’ve got snow and mountains, so it’s pretty cool.

Zach Wojtowicz:

We’re from Nebraska, so we’ve got corn fields and flat land. I think we know who’s out on top on this comparison.

Bill Gray:

Yeah. It’s pretty special. We’ve got guys surfing on one side and guys skiing on the other. We’ve got a good setup here.

Zach Wojtowicz:

We keep talking about taking the podcast on the road. I know where we’re going to be lobbying to go to. We’re going to come visit you, Bill. I hope you don’t mind.

Bill Gray:

Yeah. So, as I was saying, we’re doing mainly houses, but we do a fair bit of school work. The high school here got pretty badly hit in the earthquake, so we’ve been … Well, we fixed up all that sort of stuff, and we’ve carried on doing some major refits for them as well. So, yeah, pretty interesting work.

Charley Burtwistle:

For sure. And you’ve mentioned that a couple of times now, so the entire island of New Zealand is pretty much an earthquake zone. How does building in that environment differ from what people would expect? So, what are some of the experiences? You just mentioned the school was hit pretty hard. What are the sort of things you’re having to account for when a natural disaster like an earthquake occurs?

Bill Gray:

Back in 2010, 2011, there was a major earthquake just down the road about a hundred mile from here, and it took out most of Christchurch, which is a city close to here. Basically, they had to demolish roughly 9,000 homes and there were 170,000 buildings damaged. She was pretty full on; I can tell you. So, up to that point there wasn’t really a … Well, most of the regulations around the earthquakes were based on earthquakes that had happened way back in 1931. So, a long time ago, even before I was born. So, once this major earthquake happened, suddenly there were a lot of changes regarding the regulations on how we built. And then, of course, we just had another one, 2016, which affected us right here. Wiped out most of the infrastructure, like roads. We were stuck here in Kaikoura for basically six weeks before we could actually get out. It didn’t help that there was a sea and so. One way in, one way out.

Zach Wojtowicz:

See? You’ve got to come over to where the cornfields are. Nothing to worry about.

Bill Gray:

Pretty interesting things to be a part of, I can tell you.

Zach Wojtowicz:

What is the frequency? I’m just curious. How often are earthquakes happening in your area or your region? I mean, is it yearly? Is it every decade? I mean, what’s the expected … I know you can never really predict it, but the frequency of when these things are going to happen.

Bill Gray:

Well, there’s about 150,000 earthquakes happen in a year. Now, when I say that most of them, you can’t feel them. About 150 to 200, you feel.

Zach Wojtowicz:

So, almost one a week? I mean more or less?

Bill Gray:

Yeah, but only felt in various parts of the country. It’s not that we’re all sitting here getting thumped every week.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Just the old earthquake, no big deal.

Bill Gray:

Well, it does sort of get a little bit like that. But yeah, these major ones … Since I was born, I can only recall a couple where, when I was a kid, that you’d go, “Oh, that was an earthquake.” But there was just a jolt. The one that hit Christchurch, it knocked it around, it went for a minute or so. And then the one that had here was … Well, that was unbelievable. It was two minutes of just all hell breaking loose, basically. It happened just after midnight. Something woke me up, but I got up and then for the next two minutes I just watched this concrete floor look a wave in a lake. That’s how much the concrete going up and down. And everything that was above the above floor level landed on the floor. She was a bit of a mess and we just … Then there was nothing. And we just looked at the mess. There were houses damaged, roads damaged. Really devastation, you could say.

Charley Burtwistle:

Where were you at when that was happening? Were you safe or was there stuff collapsing all around you, or what was that experience?

Bill Gray:

Yeah, there was stuff collapsing all around me. I was stuck at the end of my bed hanging on between the bed and the wall, just trying to stand up. And the earthquake was doing all it could to throw me on the ground. And that was what was happening virtually from about 150 miles away, right through here, and then carrying right up the coast. They say that there was something like 22 different fault lines that unzipped at that time.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That’s incredible. I’m quickly moving up earthquakes on things I should worry about on my concerns.

Bill Gray:

I couldn’t believe how much concrete moved. While one piece of the floor was staying there, the next seemed to be going at two meters. I’m sorry, 200 millimeters. I guess a foot. While it was happening, you’re guessing a lot of things.

Zach Wojtowicz:

What I’m curious about is … We want to get into the regulations of earthquakes and how do you build for this and what preventative measures … I mean, is there a level that the code sets you at where if you get a 5.0 on the Richter scale, your house should maintain its structure, or is there … What’s that process like? What are the codes trying to prevent? How severe of an earthquake can the codes really mitigate the impacts of those earthquakes?

Bill Gray:

I guess the main thing to remember is that the building code first and foremost is trying to save lives. So, it’s saving lives first. Worry about the building second. So a lot of the work that’s being done around the regulations has been to make sure that the building stays up, giving people enough time to get out, and also, if you can, minimize the damage of the building itself, so the regulations have really tightened up regarding bracing units and the use of ply sheets, and even gypsum board for internal linings have become so that they are screwed off from certain pattens to make sure that they stay on the wall, despite what’s going on. But the screws, they may rip a line in the gypsum board, but they’ll still stay on the wall, so it stops the wall from collapsing. Another thing too … Sorry.

Zach Wojtowicz:

No, you go ahead.

Bill Gray:

Just going to say that one of the big things that happened, and this might apply… I see a link you sent me here regarding the building that collapsed. I think it was down the bottom of the States there?

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, Florida. Miami.

Bill Gray:

Well, we had a building collapse here in Christchurch on the first lot of earthquakes, and quite a few people were killed in that. And they did a lot of study into why that happened, and the main thing that they found was that the reinforcing steel through the concrete hadn’t been taken right the way through columns. So, there’s been a lot of changes regarding that, so that the reinforcing is actually all tied together rather than just sitting in there hoping that the building will stay up.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, that was a super interesting article. I know they had a quote in there talking about just figuring out why these different things were happening and how to prevent them. The quote was like, “You don’t need to worry about a crack in the concrete. All concrete cracks. You need to worry about what caused the concrete and figuring out how to fix that problem.” So, as you think back, you mentioned you’ve been through a couple of these pretty severe ones now. How do the changes to the building code come about? Do people learn a lot from these big, devastating, natural disasters. And if so, what have been some of the major shifts that you’ve seen over your time through some of these events that have really improved the building code and helped protect lives in the future?

Bill Gray:

The main one would be that they have really improved on the concrete floors that are made of what they call a rib raft floor, which is basically just over a foot thick with polystyrene pods every three feet or so, and that allows for a raft or an actual beam to go through every four feet. I hope that I’m explaining it well enough. Basically, the thing becomes a honeycombed type of concrete, which doesn’t break up in earthquakes, and it’s sitting on top of a compacted fill, so that in the event of an earthquake, it can move around without actually breaking up and the house falling over. And after an earthquake, these slabs can be jacked up or releveled, so they can … Well, the house can be used still. So, there’s been that one.

And then we’ve got another issue here in New Zealand and that’s climate, with it being … We get some great winds come up straight from Antarctica, so we’re all pretty … So, it cools the place down pretty quickly. So, between the climate and the earthquakes, we have come up with putting a basic ply all the way around the building and the bracing units are just picked up on that and nailed off. So, whether it’s for climate or whether it’s for bracing would most depend on the nailing pattern that we nail off on. And that, again, happens inside as well with internal walls, with the gypsum board. We’ve also moved to a much lighter roof structure. We use a lot of corrugated iron, tin type roofs, rather than concrete tiles, trying to keep the buildings as light as possible.

Charley Burtwistle:

When these improvements come out … So, you mentioned some of the new technologies you have with the concrete that’s able to shift and move, and new roofing materials, things like that, obviously, better long-term, but for the builder themselves, so for you guys, you guys have to change a lot of your plans that you’ve been doing things the same way for a long time to adapt to some of these new technologies that are out there? If so, what does that process look like? Is it slowly over time or is it as soon as they come out with something new, you guys are immediately implementing it into your build process?

Bill Gray:

I guess the biggest thing has been that everything that happens in the house these days has to be shown on the plans, the blueprints before the house could be started. So, where we would have used to build with five pages of plans, we’ve now got 40 odd pages of different sections through the different parts of the house that cover every single little piece of the puzzle, you could say. So, you become really, really good at deciphering plans, because you’ve got to build it exactly how it’s drawn rather than knowing the building code and just carrying on. So, yeah, that would be the main thing, as far as our changes are concerned. We basically have to follow their lead. Whatever the plan is, we’ve got to build, or we can go for an amendment, but we have to show that that amendment makes the building code.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Are those dictated by New Zealand, the building code, by the actual government, or is it …

Bill Gray:

Yeah, it’s pushed by the government. So, the legislation that goes through is all we have to follow. We don’t have a choice as to whether we leave things out or put things in. We can always go better than the building code, but …

Zach Wojtowicz:

Right, they set the floor. And I just imagine from your customer’s perspective, this is something that is so common in the area. It’s to your advantage to market yourself as someone who their structures will stand up against earthquakes and are built safely for their families, right? I mean, do you guys look at it from that perspective ever? When a customer comes to you, do you include this in your sales process?

Bill Gray:

Not really. The issue around all this is said that we get given a plan, usually that meets the requirement, and then we’re pricing from there. It’s not something that we can offer because it’s all covered in the drawings usually, and you just hope that you don’t miss anything otherwise you’re fighting a losing battle on the money front.

Zach Wojtowicz:

It’s always that balance.

Bill Gray:

Yeah, sure is. But I guess the thing is for us is that we’ve been lucky enough with Luke and Nicola running the show, they’re always forward thinking. So, that’s how we got linked into Buildertrend, I guess. It happened because we needed something a little bit more than just doing the same old, same old.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, absolutely. It sounds like you guys are doing a really good job of setting yourselves apart as a builder in New Zealand. Another question I had when you talked a little bit about forward thinking was just project timelines and obviously, something that we’re facing in the States, everyone is talking about is just material shortages. How has that been like for you guys in New Zealand, how project timelines had to get moved back with the purchasing maybe take it a little bit longer than it normally does.

Bill Gray:

Yeah. We’ve got the same problems. A lot of their products are all imported, and we’re pretty lucky in the timber department, but with such good money being bound by exporting our timber, we are second in line with all that. So, yeah, it’s been a long process. The old pandemic, although we’ve been very lucky there, but we’re still wandering around having a great time partying, because we’re not really affected by it, but it’s really cut through trying to get some materials. We’ve got one job here where we’re waiting for some cedar board and batten, is a cladding, and it’s a three-month waiting list. So, when I say three months, that’s to order it. That slows the job right down, because we would be looking at having it in eight weeks, say. At the moment, we’re still managing to keep the materials coming through within a timeframe that the house to be built. But if that goes out any further, we’ll be … Houses are just going to take longer and longer and longer.

Zach Wojtowicz:

So, you mentioned New Zealand obviously has a higher proportion of timber. In the United States, we were seeing lumber increases by 350%. I mean, absolutely insane. Were you insulated from that or did you also still see the lumber price increases?

Bill Gray:

We’ve got exactly the same. They haven’t gone up quite a bit much yet, but every month they’re going up and container loads of materials. The price for a container these days has gone from something $5,000 to ship a container in, and it’s now up around the $15,000 mark. So, you can see that that just affects every single little bit of material that you use on a building site.

Zach Wojtowicz:

How’s your demand on the market? In the United States, it hasn’t really slowed down. People are still building, even with these inflated prices. Have you guys also still seen a similar increase in the people who are still willing to pay those prices?

Bill Gray:

Yeah. We just can’t keep up with the work that we’ve got at the moment. All the earthquake work is virtually finished now, and we now have moved on to new housing, people shifting around. The plans that are here you could price are just incredible, but you just can’t do everything, so we’re able to pick some good jobs, and we’ve been getting them. So, that certainly helps the old will go around, you could say.

Charley Burtwistle:

Absolutely. throughout this interview, you’ve mentioned a few things. You have insane demand right now, you have purchasing delays, increased lumber prices, earthquakes to deal with. A lot of stuff to account for outside of the normal standard build process. How have you guys been utilizing Buildertrend to help with some of those processes that may be a little bit more difficult than normal to ensure that you and your company can continue rolling down the path that you’re on?

Bill Gray:

Well, the scheduling’s been the best one for us. We can add a spot when we order, so we know it’s coming in, hopefully in three months or a month or … So, we can put two points on the Buildertrend calendar, you could say, scheduling, and then we can work back from there as whereabouts each part of the job’s going to be, and hope that the material turn up on time, which is another problem, too. But yeah, definitely the scheduling. The time clocks are just fantastic for us. We can just clock on and swap jobs. It just means that every time we do something, it gets logged onto the right job, rather than just guessing it or doing paperwork at the end of the week. You’ve got everything on hand.

Zach Wojtowicz:

How big is your team? You said you had 10 employees. Are you selling out most of your work as well for the actual construction process?

Bill Gray:

No, we do just about everything.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Really? All internal.

Bill Gray:

Yep. We do all the concrete floors, all the framing … The framework we usually get pre-nailed, so they come up as made-up frames, but we do all the carpentry work, all the external cladding, internal cladding, all the finishing. Even put the showers in.

Zach Wojtowicz:

You do it all. That’s pretty unique for a new home builder.

Bill Gray:

We’ve got a good bunch of subcontractors as well, so the electricians and the plumbers, they do their thing, but we’ll even put on roofs if we have to. That main thing here is that being such a small area, we don’t have a lot of the trades, so you can pluck it out other people. So, we’ve just got to do it ourselves, or we just can’t get it finished. It’s good for the apprentices. They learn heaps of stuff because of that, and it just makes it so much easier for us not having to chase around trying to find other subcontractors.

Charley Burtwistle:

Absolutely. And doing the work yourself with an expert like Bill Gray, obviously, your houses are going to get built up to the standard that you’ve come to expect.

Bill Gray:

Oh, I just make sure that Luke gets coffee every now and that all the boys have gotten a bit of material in front of them and everyone’s happy.

Charley Burtwistle:

You’re good to go. Well, Bill, we’re getting close to time here. Just want to thank you again for coming on and speaking to some of the challenges that you face. I think this was a super informative episode. For me, definitely, and hopefully all of our listeners, too. So, thank you again, Bill.

Bill Gray:

No worries at all. Thanks very much. It’s been a … I’ll let you know when the next earthquake happens.

Charley Burtwistle:

And we’ll make sure to schedule our trip around that.

Zach Wojtowicz:

We’ll try and line it up.

Bill Gray:

All right. Great to talk, guys.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, thanks so much, Bill.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Have a good one. Well, we just had Bill Gray on to talk about the construction process down in New Zealand. At the beginning of the show, we asked about number of earthquakes. Turns out it was a much larger issue than I even realized.

Charley Burtwistle:

I feel like everything that he said in that episode kind of took me aback. And I was like, “Wow.” I didn’t realize how impactful one … How many earthquakes were happening constantly, but also just how devastating they are. And listening to his horror story about being trapped in his house during one and watching concrete move up 200 millimeters at a time is just really, really hard to imagine.

Zach Wojtowicz:

And even off air, he was talking to us about how just the entire island moved four meters. And just the impact that it can have.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, he was saying how there were some arguments over boundaries and housing lines and things like that. Zach goes, “No, no, no. The entire island moved?”

Zach Wojtowicz:

Everybody just move four feet to the right. That’s yours now. Super interesting stuff. Bill also really got into the same circumstances of the pandemic. Obviously, international pandemic has international results. Not that surprising, I’m sure. But New Zealand was insulated. They didn’t have the level of shutdowns that we had or at least for the extended period of time. So, I thought maybe it were insulated from that as well. Obviously, import costs still make it hard, and even with their resources of having timber, it ended up still having a broader impact on their bottom line, and Buildertrend is still filling the needs of our Australian and New Zealand clients just like our U.S. clients.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, absolutely. It was really interesting to hear him talk about just staying in front of some of these challenges that they’re facing, the three month delays that they’re having with some of their orders, but then also just how they’re getting in front of safety with these new materials, the honeycomb pattern concrete and the special roofing and things like that. I thought that was really interesting with just how quickly they can adapt to new technology and ensure that their houses are being built as safe as possible.

Zach Wojtowicz:

That was super interesting, just the … You think about the minds on, “Okay, how do we prevent these things from shifting too much? Let’s go get nature. What works? How are the things that just the land can teach us about structural integrity and modeling after that?”

Charley Burtwistle:

And I would love to get, and you, you mentioned this off air, too, but obviously, earthquakes and New Zealand builders aren’t the only types of builders that are facing natural disasters. I’d love to get some people that have to deal with flooding and hurricanes, people that have to deal with forest fires and tornadoes. This episode was really just eye-opening to me on how off the beaten path some of these builders have to be in order to account for these natural disasters. So, hopefully in the future we’ll have some different types of builders to talk about some other challenges that they face.

Zach Wojtowicz:

You never know where we’re going to go on “The Building Code.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, hopefully to New Zealand for our first off-road …

Zach Wojtowicz:

Let’s manifest that one in the happening.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, I don’t know, our track record isn’t that great.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Power 30 first, then New Zealand.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, we’ll get there eventually. Thanks again for listening. Remember to rate, review, subscribe. Check us out on Facebook at The Building Crew if you want to be a part. Always feel free to reach out. Other than that, I’m Charley Burtwistle.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Zach Wojtowicz.

Charley Burtwistle:

This is “The Building Code.”