Getting the team to use (and love) tech with Cardinal Crest

Bre Ferris:

Welcome to “The Better Way,” a podcast by Buildertrend. Here, you’ll learn to simplify and establish processes that will make meaningful changes to your company and help you to achieve your goals. There’s a better way to run your construction business – the Buildertrend way. On this season of “The Better Way,” we’re doing things a little bit differently. We know you don’t want to just hear from us – you want to hear from other pros. That’s why in addition to our experts, we’re also inviting industry leaders to help teach best practices for successfully implementing software and getting your team on board.

Today, we’re kicking things off with Joe Christensen and Adam Shaeffer, co-founders of Cardinal Crest Homes. Joe and Adam have been Buildertrend users for years, and their team has become the gold standard for what it’s like to get the most out of our platform. They’ve been on our primary podcast, “The Building Code,” but today they’re excited to dig a little deeper. This episode is all about learning methods for getting your team to use and love technology.

Welcome, everyone. Thank you for listening to “The Better Way” this season. I’m joined with Joe Christensen and Adam Shaeffer. You have a lot of fans in this building. I don’t think you-

Adam Shaeffer:

Oh, no.

Bre Ferris:

So many fans.

Joe Christensen:

I see them chase Adam. I saw.

Adam Shaeffer:

We are fans of a lot of people in this building.

Bre Ferris:

Oh, perfect.

Adam Shaeffer:

It goes both ways.

Joe Christensen:

Yes, it does.

Bre Ferris:

Good, good, good. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Awesome to have you guys on this season. We’re super excited to chat with you and kind of learn about some of your processes and your journey with Buildertrend and just hear some of your stories.

Adam Shaeffer:

Can’t wait.

Bre Ferris:

I already heard a few, but I can’t wait to hear the rest.

Adam Shaeffer:

There’s so many.

Bre Ferris:

So many. We’re going to turn this into a 45-episode season.

Adam Shaeffer:

Oh, perfect.

Bre Ferris:

Hope you have time. I’m just kidding. Let’s get started and talk about prior to Buildertrend, what was life looking like for you in the construction world? What were those processes looking like? What was the day-to-day? How awful was it?

Adam Shaeffer:

Dumpster fire.

Joe Christensen:

Fire hose.

Adam Shaeffer:

Fire hose.

Joe Christensen:

To the face, open mouth.

Adam Shaeffer:

Ouch.

Joe Christensen:

Wow. Graphic. Yeah, I think prior to a software like Buildertrend, I think we were like anybody using anything and everything that was available to us at the time. That might be, I don’t know. I think we used … I still use Google Sheets. But we use Google Sheets, we use Excel, and we still use those products, but there was no Dropbox at that time. I don’t think I was using Dropbox. And then there’s a lot of paper. That’s where we started the binder organization, right?

Bre Ferris:

Ooh.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yep. Every job had a binder.

Joe Christensen:

We actually still-

Adam Shaeffer:

We still do it.

Joe Christensen:

We’re kind of still old school where we still have paper binders. We’ve been talking to our office manager, finance manager, to ditch the binders. I don’t think he ever will. But we started this binder organization. I think the big highlight was I did have just budget controls and organizing, and I did have an Excel sheet get corrupted, and I lost a ton of information. And not only this budget, but some selections and whatnot, and I got really frazzled – is the right word, maybe.

Adam Shaeffer:

Oh, yeah.

Joe Christensen:

And we started thinking, there’s got to be a-

Bre Ferris:

Better way.

Joe Christensen:

Better way.

Adam Shaeffer:

Wow.

Bre Ferris:

Oh.

Joe Christensen:

That was not rehearsed, guys. I just want everyone to know. It was not rehearsed.

Bre Ferris:

Wow.

Joe Christensen:

I just looked into your eyes and you knew.

Bre Ferris:

In my soul.

Joe Christensen:

I did. I did. I saw your soul.

Bre Ferris:

I felt that.

Joe Christensen:

It’s gorgeous, by the way.

Bre Ferris:

Oh, thank you.

Joe Christensen:

Sorry. That-

Adam Shaeffer:

Early on though, for us, we’ve been using Buildertrend for quite some time. It was late 2011, maybe early 2012 when we started using Buildertrend.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah.

Adam Shaeffer:

We understood that there was a better way very early on in our careers, and we were looking for the best solution. In the beginning, it was just Joe and I doing everything. And we started, it was Joe and I designing all of the architectural documents for the home. We did all of the interior design, and then we did all the project management as well. And then on top of that, anything that had to happen in the back office and we were-

Joe Christensen:

Accounting-

Adam Shaeffer:

… slammed.

Joe Christensen:

Sales, anything you could think of, any department you could think of in a corporation, that’s what we had to do.

Adam Shaeffer:

Oh, yeah. And so we were working nonstop. Nonstop for the first, honestly, two to three years. We learned early, early on that we needed something. We needed help, or we weren’t going to be able to do this for much longer. We did a bunch of market research, and Buildertrend was a solution that we found. And honestly, it changed everything.

Joe Christensen:

I still remember when we watched the demo video. We were actually officing out of my brother’s basement, and he was gracious enough to let us destroy his little bar there or take it over.

Adam Shaeffer:

Thank you, Dave.

Joe Christensen:

Thank you, Dave. I remember watching it right there, and it was like – I can’t remember who our salesman at that time was. It was 11 years ago. Somebody probably could tell us. I think they have told us at one point. But we were blown away right away. We were like, oh, this is it. And not only that, but back in that day, I will have to say I felt like, when we called Buildertrend – I don’t know if it was true, but I felt like there was a little bit of magic back then, too, that still exists. But we called Buildertrend, and I felt like I’d say, “It would be really cool if you had this.” They’re like, “We have it next week.” It was-

Adam Shaeffer:

And it’d be done.

Joe Christensen:

… lightning fast. Whoa. I think we had joined Buildertrend right at the explosion of the company, so it just seemed like we grew as it grew, and it almost was a perfect partner at the time. And what’s funny is that we were busy because it was just the two of us, but we were overly busy because with just the two of us doing all those different things, we were thinking, OK, how do we scale this and how do we use Buildertrend to scale? We just dove in on so many different things, all the different facets of Buildertrend to say, “OK, how do we template this? How do we make it consistent? How do we make the process consistent?” And you know what? That’s a big point of our company because as we grew even – I’m kind of fast forwarding, but I’m going to tell this story, which I know Adam loves this story.

Bre Ferris:

Lay it on us.

Joe Christensen:

I think you tell it more than I do, but it’s not that great. Actually, it’s not that great of a story. I’m hyping it up now.

Bre Ferris:

Can’t wait to be disappointed.

Joe Christensen:

Get ready to be disappointed, listeners. Having a business partner, it’s super sucky. You have this other per-

Adam Shaeffer:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Christensen:

I’m kidding. Adam and I are both contractors, and contractors are really mild personalities. We’re not type A; we’re total just laid-back, passive people. So when Adam and I would be over jobs, we totally would do it our separate ways because we all are type A; we all are decision makers. Soon, after a couple years of doing work, not even maybe a couple years, we realized – wait a second, there is an Adam experience and there’s a Joe experience. And they’re both good, but they’re both different. It’s like, we were almost at some point, it felt like it was two different companies. And that’s where it really started helping to integrate into Buildertrend even more to say, “OK, how do I make this process repeatable and the same, and what tools are in Buildertrend to help us replicate the same thing? And what can we do to then merge ourselves and become one as a partnership and not two?

Adam Shaeffer:

Oh, for sure. I feel like the Cardinal Crest way in a sense has become, Buildertrend has become a key component of how we do business. And maybe how we’ve-

Joe Christensen:

Maybe another partner.

Adam Shaeffer:

Maybe.

Joe Christensen:

The trifecta.

Adam Shaeffer:

The trifecta.

Joe Christensen:

May the trifecta.

Adam Shaeffer:

It totally allowed us to create consistency within our company, and that was how we created the Cardinal Crest experience – is to develop that process, that system, that is repeatable. And Buildertrend allowed us to do that. There’s many key features in Buildertrend that really helped us out. Templates. Every single project manager, I don’t doubt that they can build a home. Any single one of them can build a home, but some of them might install tile before they paint. Some might install tile after they paint. So creating schedule templates, creating templates for our selections, creating this type of consistency for our company, kind of forced project managers to build the way that we want them to build or that we would like them to build. For our clients, creating these templates selections, it forced our clients to make selections in a way that we want them to make selections. It created consistency, and that has helped our business a hundredfold.

Bre Ferris:

Amazing.

Joe Christensen:

Oh, wow. My throat gurgled. Sorry if you heard that.

Adam Shaeffer:

We heard it.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah, I know.

Bre Ferris:

Oh, we heard it.

Adam Shaeffer:

Every little gurgling.

Joe Christensen:

I got excited when you were talking, just gurgled.

Bre Ferris:

OK. Obviously, you had the processes before using Buildertrend, and we kind of helped get everything into one place for you, provide a consistent experience. I think something that we hear pretty often is that Buildertrend can be a little overwhelming at the beginning. You sign up with a brand new program. There’s lots of features; there’s a lot of things that you can do, a lot of places you can start. And that journey’s going to be different for everybody-

Joe Christensen:

For sure.

Bre Ferris:

… based on your desired outcomes and things like that. But where did you find it most beneficial to get going? Did you pick a few features that you knew you wanted to dive into?

Adam Shaeffer:

Let me touch on that just real quick because you had mentioned something that kind of struck me where you said, “Hey, before having Buildertrend, you guys had these systems and these processes in place.” And I’m going to be completely honest with you – we didn’t.

Bre Ferris:

You didn’t.

Joe Christensen:

No.

Bre Ferris:

Oh.

Adam Shaeffer:

And so the beauty of Buildertrend is that we all want these systems and these processes to help improve our businesses. Buildertrend, in a way, helped us or it forced us to create systems and processes to create consistency within our business. That was a huge help. Joe had mentioned this partnership, and I think Buildertrend is 100% a partner in our company because it did force us to create systems and processes. And the way that we use Buildertrend, it is infused in every aspect of our business from pre-construction to production into warranty as well. And on the sales side. Those four aspects of our business, it’s all about Buildertrend.

Joe Christensen:

I think this is jumping away from your question, but in the same vein, I would say that at times when I hear people talk about Buildertrend and the system, I think what helped us get in early and not have processes is because sometimes people, they look at their own company and what’s working – it might not be the best solution, but it’s working, and they came up with a system. A system. It might not be a great one, but it’s something they came up with, and it’s personal and came with a lot of heartache and experience.

They get a software – because I do this still when I adapt a newer software. You get a new software, and then all of a sudden you’re like, “Well, it doesn’t do what I want it to do. It doesn’t do it my way. It doesn’t do my system.” And so you automatically think it’s not going to work because it’s not your way.

That was one huge advantage is that we really didn’t have processes and systems, so we looked at it and said, “Well, what is Buildertrend capable of doing for schedule? What is it capable of doing for selections, and how could we use this to our advantage? How can we use different tabs and create a system around it?” And I think unfortunately, I do think as an adopter of Buildertrend, if you are an old business, that’s how you have to look at it and say, “How do we revamp our system for Buildertrend to be the intermediary?” How do you say that word?

Adam Shaeffer:

I think we understand.

Joe Christensen:

You know what I’m saying?

Adam Shaeffer:

Of course.

Bre Ferris:

Yeah.

Joe Christensen:

But I sound like an idiot.

Bre Ferris:

But you sound good saying it in this microphone.

Joe Christensen:

Oh, my gosh, I sound so good. OK, so you know what I’m saying. The middle guy, middle man or woman, that’s what Buildertrend is, and you have to use that tool. It’s just like anything else. You can’t force a nail or a hammer to do something different than it’s intended to do, so you have to learn how to use a hammer or a skill saw or a table saw. Yeah, there’s different creative ways you might be able to use a table saw, but at the end of the day, its main purpose is for a certain function. I think you’ve got to look at Buildertrend that way, too, that you’re going to have to change and morph around it. And it is open and customizable, but I think that’s a huge thing, and that’s software in general. You feel like it should solve all my problems, or why isn’t it working with my way? But it is overwhelming. Back to your question. It’s super overwhelming when you first get into it.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yeah, I agree. It’s a weird thing because as a builder, I’ve heard some builders say things like, “Well, everyone at Buildertrend, they don’t build homes. They don’t know how to do it. They’re techy,” or whatever.

Joe Christensen:

Damn it, Bobby.

Adam Shaeffer:

Damn it, Bobby.

Joe Christensen:

You sounded like a-

Adam Shaeffer:

But the deal is, you’ve got to erase that from your thoughts, and you need to appreciate that tech background that Buildertrend brings to the table. Buildertrend, I look at the potential users. I see the one-man show, the guy that’s building one, two, three homes a year, gorgeous homes. He pours his whole heart into them, and he has a system and he has a process. And he might be thinking, I don’t want Buildertrend to come in and change what I do or whatever. But I promise you that that gentleman, that lady, that builder, they will sleep so much better at night if they do incorporate Buildertrend into their processes, if they do work with their subcontractors to get on board with Buildertrend. It will be a better way for them. I also think of the-

Joe Christensen:

Good tag.

Adam Shaeffer:

I also think of the builder that has 18 employees, that has 30 employees, and that builder right now, is trying to figure out how the freak do I get my team to work together? How the freak do I get my team to build the way that I want them to build? And Buildertrend is that solution. It creates consistency within a company.

Joe Christensen:

You just reminded me of something, too, that’s a huge, huge problem in our industry is the key man problem. I look at that like, there’s totally builders who are doing 40, 30, 50 homes, lots of employees, and they are the key men. And I think that’s where also this software comes into place is that it replaces the key man and it says, how do we all use this and become our own? How is this the key man process? Back to your initial question, I do think, something I hear a lot of times is the commercial guys in our company often say, because the projects are really large, and they’re like, “Well, how do you eat an elephant?” They’ll say that a lot and it’s like, piece by piece, little by little.

Adam Shaeffer:

Nom, nom, nom.

Joe Christensen:

Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom.

Bre Ferris:

Little nibbles.

Joe Christensen:

That’s how when you take on Buildertrend, my advice to anybody who is first getting on it is to start with something that’s really intuitive to you. I would say the most intuitive thing at the beginning of Buildertrend, first, it would be email. That’s very intuitive, and that’s an easy process. It’s a grinding one, but to say everyone only communicates through Buildertrend. That’s the way, I’m sorry. This is the way. It’s cool. It’s cool. I didn’t say it low, though. This is-

Bre Ferris:

Maybe the better way.

Joe Christensen:

Oh, gosh. Right there, just email. And then the next thing that’s really intuitive, I think for contractors, is schedule. Start building out your schedule, and then start templating it. Build out one really awesome schedule that’s kind of generic, but then kind of has some key points to it. And then the moment you really can get a template that’s working, what’s really awesome about it is that – there’s schedules that we’ve used for decades. Contractors have used schedules, and they’ve been three-week look-aheads, full CPM schedules or critical path schedules with Gantt charts and whatnot. But what’s really awesome about Buildertrend and a software in general like this is it’s interactive. It’s live; it’s living. It can change in any moment, and it can be a huge project management tool.

It’s like another tool in your tool belt that you can whip out and say, “OK, here’s the schedule now. Here’s what’s happening,” but what’s going to happen in the future and what’s happened in the past and who’s actually here and what delays are happening. And you can populate that and really make it living and knowledgeable where everyone starts seeing this tool grow and change and be dynamic, and that’s where it takes on a whole other form of a real basic way of using the schedule, just doing a three-week look-ahead once a week.

It gets updated once a week, great, but the ideal scenario is that you’ve got to schedule live on Buildertrend. People are accepting when they’re going to be there or not accepting. There’s daily logs that are showing up from the platform of when they were there, what things were done. There’s weather being reported right there. All of a sudden you’ve got these multiple layers that it becomes this really powerful multi-tool kind of scenario where you’re like, yes, this is just a schedule, but now when you look into it, it’s like an onion. I didn’t have a good Shrek voice. I’m thinking, Shrek-

Bre Ferris:

It’s like an onion. So many layers.

Joe Christensen:

And that’s an intuitive thing to contractors, is everyone starts with a schedule. I would say when you first get Buildertrend, start with something that you’re really used to and that you’re good at. If you’re really good at schedules, start there. If you’re good at, I don’t know – if you love doing daily logs and you do it on some other app, start with daily logs and see the power of that and how that kind of forms. And then you have to just do it one by one and have small successes. Because I think it is super overwhelming. There’s so many things. We’ve been using it for 12 years, and just yesterday when we were here talking to the program management or whatever that team was, I was like, “I’m not even using that; I’m not using that.” And I felt kind of naked, exposed. I did. I was like, I know, inappropriate. But I was like, “Ah, no, I don’t use that.” What else do you not use? I felt like I was a super user.

Bre Ferris:

There’s just always more to learn.

Joe Christensen:

There is.

Adam Shaeffer:

That’s the beauty of the program. I think Joe’s strategy is an excellent strategy. The reason why we want Buildertrend in our companies is to solve issues, problems that we’re having, try to systemize the approach, make things more simple for us. But I feel like a lot of times that strategy – when I’m a new user coming onto Buildertrend and I say: “OK, here’s a frustration that I have; I need to manage my selections. I’m going to do a deep dive into selections.” The truth is, most likely, it will probably end up just being more frustrating for you because you’re not 100% familiar with the program, and you haven’t experienced the wins that the program can bring-

Joe Christensen:

That’s true.

Adam Shaeffer:

… to your company. The things that we’re all good at, just like Joe’s saying – start with the scheduling. We’re great at scheduling. Let’s do that. We’re going to populate a template schedule for a brand new home. We’re going to do a template schedule for a remodel. If it’s a whole house remodel, we’re going to do a template schedule for a basement finish. I’m going to put a template schedule for installing a pool. There’s lots of different options that you can have with those template schedules, and we’re good at scheduling, so start with those and you will experience the wins. And then once you’re familiar with the program, then start tackling the issues that you’re having, and I think you’ll have a lot more success with Buildertrend.

Bre Ferris:

Break it into chunks. The elephant.

Joe Christensen:

The elephant.

Bre Ferris:

Piece by piece.

Joe Christensen:

Yep.

Bre Ferris:

Vicious.

Joe Christensen:

Nom, nom.

Bre Ferris:

You guys kill me. No, and I think, like we said, sometimes it can be overwhelming, but just finding something that you’re already doing well. Buildertrend isn’t here to just completely wipe out all of your current processes and tell you everything you ever have known and loved is just wrong. We’re here to help. We’re here to calm that chaos. We are here to be a partner, so use us and utilize what we have to offer. Ask us questions; lean on us. We’re here to make your day a little bit easier. I appreciate the insight because I think it’s one thing to hear us internally say it. We understand it’s overwhelming, step by step, but then to hear people who use it every single day and they’re like, oh, OK, they’re not lying.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah.

Bre Ferris:

Throwing things?

Joe Christensen:

That was my phone. Hopped out of my butt.

Adam Shaeffer:

Whoa. He is naked down there, everyone.

Bre Ferris:

Oh, gosh.

Adam Shaeffer:

You know what’s funny? I can remember, or just other builders that I’ve spoken with, they’re like, “Dude, I’m getting Buildertrend so that it’s for my customers. It’s for my customers.” I hear that a lot. And the truth is it is for your customers, and it’s an amazing experience. It totally improves the build experience for them, but-

Joe Christensen:

It’s only half of it.

Adam Shaeffer:

That’s only half of it.

Joe Christensen:

Maybe a third of it.

Adam Shaeffer:

I would say that’s just a bonus component of Buildertrend. The real nitty-gritty, the reason why, be honest-

Joe Christensen:

Gives it to us.

Adam Shaeffer:

… with yourself.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah.

Adam Shaeffer:

The reason why you want Buildertrend is because our freaking jobs are hard.

Bre Ferris:

Yeah.

Joe Christensen:

Chaos.

Adam Shaeffer:

They are, hopefully, controlled chaos every single day. All we’re doing is we’re putting out fires constantly. Now, Buildertrend helps us look awesome for our clients if we’re using it correctly and updating schedules and whatnot. But the real reason why we’re doing this is – dude, it is for you. It is for your business. It just is that bonus for the customer where you are going to look incredible in front of your customers if you are utilizing the program. Joe and my approach to that, super transparent-

Bre Ferris:

I was going to say, how are you-

Adam Shaeffer:

… with our clients.

Bre Ferris:

How are you doing that with your customers, with your owners, with-

Adam Shaeffer:

Our approach to that is complete transparency, even with our entire team. We might be unique in that thought, but all of our employees have access, 100% access to-

Joe Christensen:

To all features of Buildertrend.

Adam Shaeffer:

All the financial information, all messages. In fact, when you’re setting up the users, the different people on your team, they get to see all of the company messages. We want them to see all communication. We don’t want to restrict anything for any of our employees. On the homeowner side, they see the full schedule 100%.

Joe Christensen:

That’s unique to us, too, and I think you have to be – obviously, to give a little backstory to that, we only do 10 to 15 homes a year, so it’s more manageable. I think if somebody’s scaling at a large, they might want to separate their departments more. For us, we see it as very helpful to have – if a customer brings up something to a PM and we see that it’s interior-design based, we want the interior designer to be able to jump in and say: “Hey, I saw this email even though it wasn’t directed to me. I’ve got a solution here.” And so we see it as a collaboration effort.

Bre Ferris:

Gotcha.

Joe Christensen:

And I hear some new tools that might be coming out on Buildertrend yesterday. I don’t know if I’m giving away something, but there might be some more communication, collaboration efforts coming that could actually solve that beyond email, which is going to be awesome, but…

Bre Ferris:

Insider scoop, everybody.

Adam Shaeffer:

That was cool.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah, that was good. Yeah, I didn’t plan that. That was cool. You spurred something else that I forgot to say, Adam. I like to say this a lot because the best and worst part of construction is the human component. It’s the best thing because there’s so much gratification when you build something that’s just beautiful and it’s what you want and you get it just right, and you work with these artists and craftsmen, and you’re doing this work and it just turns out beautiful. And your clients are just super emotional and they’re going to remember you forever, and they see you in a grocery store and they’re like, “Hey, son or daughter, that’s our builder. He built our house.” And you look at those kids and they think, whoa, he did it all himself? And you’re like, “Yeah. Yeah, I did.”

Bre Ferris:

Yeah, I did, every single piece by myself.

Joe Christensen:

But truly it was a bunch of different craftsmen and artists. But on the flip side, it is the worst part. The human error is massive. The game of telephone, the game of I’m going to be there. No, I’m not there. Yeah, we’ve got all that material. No, it’s back-ordered six months. What? All this human error can cause massive chaos, and it can happen and sometimes does on a scale that’s unbelievable. Like the last two years, unbelievable chaos. Every day, a new crap storm. That’s the G-rated version of that. Just every day, it was unbelievable how many new problems would happen that were colossal. Huge price increases, huge delays, huge problems with labor.

What I’m getting at is that where this software is really great – and you kind of brought this up – is that it’s your constant. It’s the one thing that’s constant in your business. It’s the rails. And definitely things get off the rails. But when you have a constant, you’re off the rails – let’s set it back on and then go from there. Because it’s going to happen. Projects, maybe labor screwed something up or something happened. Sometimes, what we’ve experienced – and a lot of builders experience this – is there is an explosion of work, explosion of pricing, explosion of so many things that things got off the rail. And then when you have a software and a system in place, you can say, “OK, hold up.”

Joe Christensen:

You know what I’m saying. I didn’t mean to, but again, I didn’t plan it, but it just happened.

Adam Shaeffer:

You’re just going for it, dude.

Joe Christensen:

I know. You put it back on the rails. I’m an idiot.

Bre Ferris:

And here comes Buildertrend, back on the rails.

Joe Christensen:

Yes, here we are back on the rails. To me, I love that it’s a constant because things are not. We talk in theory all the time, and I’m sure here at the Buildertrend HQ, you’re like, “Oh, this new thing’s going to be so awesome.” You guys were just loving the theory of all this stuff and the technology of this, and you guys are all in the clouds. And then you probably talked to one contractor, and he’s like, “That’s crap. It ain’t going to work.” But it does. It’s just, it will come off the rails at times, and you have something to set it back on.

Adam Shaeffer:

For sure. As you’re talking, Joe, my mind is going in a direction where, with everything that had happened the last two years in our industry, what was super helpful to just add a layer of protection-

Joe Christensen:

So true.

Adam Shaeffer:

… to our business. I hope that through the last two years, people, users of Buildertrend, when things were happening that were not going our way, when we were having procurement issues, when we were having scheduling issues – when subcontractors were saying, “Hey, yeah, dude, I’ll be onsite on Tuesday,” and then they show up a month later – I hope we were utilizing our schedules and making that information available, visible to our clients, so that it didn’t result in anything bad.

Joe Christensen:

Well, you know what you’re-

Adam Shaeffer:

Lawyers and whatnot.

Joe Christensen:

Where you’re getting at, too, we had these moments, and you know what was so sweet and awesome. Even though it’s like a told-you-so moment, so you don’t want to rub it in people’s faces, but we had multiple moments. These come-to-Jesus talks with clients these last two years, over pricing, scheduling, and they’re pissed at us – and if you’re a builder who didn’t have those problems, call me. I’d love to know what you did.

Adam Shaeffer:

You’re amazing.

Joe Christensen:

You’re amazing, and I want to showcase you.

Adam Shaeffer:

You’re using Buildertrend.

Joe Christensen:

You’re using Buildertrend. It was awesome to then pull up Buildertrend on the schedule, communication, and the jobs that we were doing it right. Now, I can’t say we were doing it all right because it was chaos. But the jobs that we were doing it right, when we say, “Well, let’s look at the communication we’ve had. Well, we’ve contacted you multiple times a week through email. We have logged these daily logs, three of them a week, and we’ve been updating the schedule and showing you where we’ve had weather delays and this.” And not that it will click with a client that moment, but it does calm the scenario and says, you know what? These guys are doing their best. The scenario, it then does put the focus back on the impossible scenario we were doing. And those times will come again. I don’t think, hopefully, knock on wood – that we don’t ever experience what we just experienced. But there will be those houses that something happens or projects that are difficult, and when you have all this documentation that you’re saying.

Bre Ferris:

A little safety net.

Joe Christensen:

It does. It makes it awesome to go back and say, “You know what? We were doing the best we had with this scenario and what we’ve been given, and we have been documenting it and keeping you in the loop.” And I think, last thing I’m going to say on this topic. We talked about this a lot during COVID because there’s so many bad delays post-COVID. I would tell people, we would show people all of Buildertrend and say, “Let’s show you a little bit behind the curtain of what’s going on,” because that’s what was going on. People would be like, “Well, you said the plumber was going to be there next week,” and I was like, “Yeah, he called. And we called him, and he confirmed and he double-confirmed. He even triple-verified.”

Adam Shaeffer:

Stamp that.

Joe Christensen:

And he still didn’t show up. Here’s the documentation, and here’s the text messages, and here’s the daily logs of when we did it. And it was good to start showing people behind the curtain of the madness we were doing. It kind of reminded me of an article I read about IKEA, how IKEA, some of the magic about IKEA is that they do make you put together all their furniture, and they have seen this. I don’t know if they knew this before they started this model, but they said there’s this overwhelming pride in furniture even though it’s not the best quality. There’s this pride that happens when you put together your own.

Bre Ferris:

I did that.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah. And I felt like, well, if we can start – I joke that all clients should have to schedule one subcontractor. To be like, welcome into our world and be like, OK, we’ll handle the rest, but just so you know the pain.

Bre Ferris:

So you can feel what we feel.

Joe Christensen:

You can feel. But I felt like taking people behind the curtain a little bit, if you will, the Wizard of Oz picture and saying, “Look at the madness we’re dealing with.” And Buildertrend actually helps you kind of document that and show you: “Guys, we’re doing our best, and you’ve hired us to be expert service people and to be experts in our field. But we are limited to some tools and labor that we have to deal with in the market.”

Bre Ferris:

Doing what we can.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah.

Bre Ferris:

I think the owner side, the owner portal is quite frankly something that I think is underutilized sometimes because it can be a little scary. We get builders who are like, “I don’t want them to see this or I don’t want them to see that,” and they just get a little nervous, so I appreciate you guys touching on that and how huge it is for your business.

Joe Christensen:

Oh, yeah.

Bre Ferris:

Because I think it’s worth hearing that from someone like you who uses Buildertrend every day.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah, because I do know builders that have said they don’t even let their owners see the owner side.

Bre Ferris:

Nope. They won’t make them active at all, which to each their own.

Joe Christensen:

To each their own.

Bre Ferris:

It’s not for everybody, but-

Joe Christensen:

For us, it’s really beneficial. There’s never been a project that nobody’s ever seen.

Adam Shaeffer :

For us, because we’ve implemented Buildertrend in every single aspect of our construction company. Day One, when we start the design meeting, we spend 30 to 40 minutes acclimating the homeowner to their Buildertrend user account. Every time we meet with the homeowner, we’re asking them to pull up their Buildertrend account in front of us. It is 100% a part of our business. All communication, we ask our clients, it goes through Buildertrend. If they send us a text, we do instruct our team: “Hey, this is a great text. Thank you so much. Can you make a comment on Buildertrend? Can you get on Buildertrend and send us that information?”

Joe Christensen:

Changes? Hey, can you go on Buildertrend and just request that change?

Adam Shaeffer:

If there’s a phone call, put up the daily log. Hey, I got a phone call from the homeowner, X, Y, Z. Put it up on Buildertrend. But it’s such a part, and what we’ve learned by doing that is we do get less pissed-off clients. They are involved in the process, and we don’t have to do a whole lot for that.

Joe Christensen:

Well, and that’s why I kind of brought up that IKEA thing.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yeah, totally.

Joe Christensen:

Because that’s what it comes down to is you want them in our process. We’re doing 10 to 15. Now, if you’re doing 100, it’s going to be a different story. But when you’re a custom home builder, you want them to be part of the team. And that’s a sucky – what’s the word I was going to try to use? The culture of contractors kind of sucks. You, mechanics, maybe dentists, we’re all roped into – you’re cheating us. It’s too much money. You’re making more than you save.

Adam Shaeffer:

Totally.

Joe Christensen:

So I guess all customers are like Wile E. Coyote – what’s his name? What’s his name? Yosemite Sam? Yosemite Sam. Well, I got – you’re cheating us. Gosh, we’re silly this morning. I am. But I think trying to break that, if you can show them more, have them more part of the process, they see you as partners in what they truly hired you for. There’s sometimes just such a role of, this contractor is screwing me. This contractor is making all this money. And they often look at the big dollar figure – and the home is multiple million, $2 million. We’re making a small fraction of that, and it never fails that clients can have – you’re already having an uphill battle. So I think tools like this can help show them the process, show them that it’s a little messy and that things are not perfect because of the human error problem, but it’s also really awesome and different things, so anyway.

Bre Ferris:

Gotcha.

Adam Shaeffer:

It’s a weird thing that as you’re talking, Joe, I’m thinking that early on in my career, I would have these thoughts all the time. At the completion of a project, a homeowner, one of my clients, says something like, “Oh, man, the home that I built is incredible,” and I’m like, “Well, I built it.” I have that sense, well, that’s what I like to do. Or, “The home I designed is incredible.” And you’re like, “Well, I designed it.”

Joe Christensen:

I can think of a certain person that I was so bitter at when he would say that. And I know what you’re about to say, but I really was. I was almost offended by that top.

Adam Shaeffer:

Oh, totally. Early on-

Joe Christensen:

Early on.

Adam Shaeffer:

… for sure. Because you’re like, “Well, you should thank me or whatever.”

Joe Christensen:

I’m the one who did it.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yeah. What the-

Joe Christensen:

But then subs are like, “I’m the one who actually did it, you jerk.”

Adam Shaeffer:

Yeah. Yeah. But what I’ve come to realize, and what we have required from our homeowners to do the deep dive into Buildertrend is, they get the IKEA feeling. I have designed this home because I went through all of your selection process that’s in Buildertrend, and I got to pick the color of the hinges on my doors. I got to pick the faucet for my main-floor half bath. I got to pick the tile.

Joe Christensen:

Even if our interior designer actually picked it, they do feel a sense of-

Adam Shaeffer:

Every selection.

Joe Christensen:

I accepted it. I accepted it.

Bre Ferris:

A sense of purpose in there.

Adam Shaeffer:

I approved it. I followed the schedule the whole way through the project, so I was involved in every aspect. And now when I hear that, I’m like, “You did. You did build this home.”

Bre Ferris:

You did that.

Adam Shaeffer:

Congratulations, you did it. I like to feel like we built it, but-

Bre Ferris:

Yeah.

Adam Shaeffer:

If they say that, I’m 100% OK with that because I feel like the system that we’ve provided through Buildertrend has created those feelings.

Joe Christensen:

I think you’ve transcended now. You’ve now reached nirvana that you can now say-

Bre Ferris:

I think.

Joe Christensen:

They built it.

Adam Shaeffer:

You did build it.

Joe Christensen:

You did.

Bre Ferris:

And I couldn’t think of a better way to end this episode than with a sense of nirvana.

Joe Christensen:

Oh, wow.

Bre Ferris:

Yeah. I appreciate you-

Joe Christensen:

Cue the didgeridoo. Whoa.

Adam Shaeffer:

Wow. That did not work.

Joe Christensen:

[inaudible 00:41:09].

Adam Shaeffer:

There you go. You got it a little bit.

Bre Ferris:

Awesome. I appreciate you guys. I know we covered a lot of information here, but just hearing how – integral? There we go-

Joe Christensen:

I like it.

Bre Ferris:

Buildertrend is in your day to-

Joe Christensen:

You’re being me.

Bre Ferris:

I know, right? I’m glad that none of us can speak. Buildertrend is in your day-to-day is just amazing to hear. And as an employee of Buildertrend, it’s music to my ears, so I appreciate you sharing your stories with us and hearing how it’s changed your lives for the better.

Joe Christensen:

Yes. The better way.

Adam Shaeffer:

Better way.

Joe Christensen:

The better way.

Bre Ferris:

Awesome. Well, thank you, Joe and Adam.

Adam Shaeffer :

You’re very welcome.

Joe Christensen:

Thank you.

Bre Ferris:

Appreciate your time.

Adam Shaeffer :

Yep.

Joe Christensen:

It’s been a blast.

Bre Ferris:

Thanks for listening to “The Better Way.” If you’re a Buildertrend customer, schedule a training session to learn more tricks for applying software within your business. Be sure to rate, review and subscribe to “The Better Way” wherever you get your podcasts. Visit Buildertrend.com/podcast to sign up for the email notifications on when the next season drops and explore our original podcast, “The Building Code.” Don’t miss our next episode, focused on how to become a Buildertrend Champion and why it makes all the difference in successfully implementing our platform.