The Cardinal Crest scheduling template

Bre Ferris:

Welcome to “The Better Way,” a podcast by Buildertrend. Here, you’ll learn to simplify and establish processes that will make meaningful changes to your company and help you to achieve your goals. There’s a better way to run your construction business. The Buildertrend way. On this season of “The Better Way,” we’re doing things a little bit differently. We know you don’t want to just hear from us – you want to hear from other pros. That’s why, in addition to our experts, we’re also inviting industry leaders to help teach best practices for successfully implementing software and getting your team onboard.

In this episode, get scheduling insights and an overview of the template from the guys who have built over 100 homes in over a decade. Today, Joe Christensen and Adam Shaeffer are here to talk about keeping their team and projects on track.

Thank you, again, both of you, for being here with us for another episode of “The Better Way.” And I would love to pick your brains about scheduling, scheduling templates.

Joe Christensen:

Pick on.

Bre Ferris:

Pick on?

Adam Shaeffer:

Dig deep, too.

Joe Christensen:

Let’s get our pick on.

Adam Shaeffer:

We’re open books.

Bre Ferris:

Straight to the diving board. Are you ready to rock and roll?

Adam Shaeffer:

Yes.

Joe Christensen:

I’m ready to jump in.

Adam Shaeffer:

Back flip.

Bre Ferris:

So-

Adam Shaeffer:

Gainer.

Bre Ferris:

You guys are obviously super users of Buildertrend, been with us for years and years. Longer than I’ve known some of my own family, I feel like. You’ve been with us for, you said, 12 years. Is that right?

Adam Shaeffer:

Well, just about.

Bre Ferris:

Just about. Just a tad under. By golly.

Joe Christensen:

Gosh. It’s true.

Bre Ferris:

Yeah.

Joe Christensen:

I have a longer relationship with Buildertrend than I have with my kids.

Bre Ferris:

Yeah.

Joe Christensen:

They were not alive.

Bre Ferris:

Oh, Jesus.

Adam Shaeffer:

It’s just a part of the family.

Joe Christensen:

It is a part-

Bre Ferris:

We know where we’re at on the totem pole.

Joe Christensen:

When you’re here-

Bre Ferris:

You’re family.

Joe Christensen:

Oh, my God.

Adam Shaeffer:

It’s the Buildertrend way, dude.

Bre Ferris:

We are getting sued by somebody.

Joe Christensen:

Wait, didn’t they give that up? They did.

Adam Shaeffer:

I felt like Jimmy Fallon bought it or something.

Joe Christensen:

Post Malone brought it back. Yeah-

Bre Ferris:

Oh, perfect. Oh, we’re fine then.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah.

Bre Ferris:

He’s cool. So with our schedule, right? Our Schedule feature, why has this been such a game-changer for your business?

Joe Christensen:

Let’s dive in.

Bre Ferris:

Dive in.

Adam Shaeffer:

Let’s dive in.

Bre Ferris:

Where did you start with it? Maybe we can start there. Where’d you start with the scheduling tool? Because I’m sure it didn’t, you didn’t just have like 150 items overnight and…

Joe Christensen:

No, no. And I think I’m going to, we’re going to touch on a little bit of things that we touched on previously. But I think, again, scheduling is the most intuitive thing for any contractor because ultimately everything funnels down to the schedule. Everything that we do. Every selection, every change order. I mean, you really could boil it down that if a schedule is a funnel, then every other component’s going to fall down into that.

So I think we all are raised in the construction, our construction lives, to start using a schedule. And I think we started it with a really basic template form. And because you start by having a three-week look-ahead or some type of CP, critical path schedule, and then you start seeing the tool that Buildertrend is and that it’s not just a static schedule. It’s not something that just lives on Excel, and that you keep printing out once a week, and saying: “Hey, what happened? What happened this week?” Oh, none of that.

Adam Shaeffer:

Let me just say pause real quick.

Joe Christensen:

No, I’m not done, I’m not done.

Adam Shaeffer:

So one thing that Buildertrend offers that I think we just discovered maybe a year ago, a year and a half ago.

Joe Christensen:

This might be embarrassing that you’re admitting this, but-

Adam Shaeffer:

I am admitting this, but I don’t think a lot of users know this. Like, Buildertrend has a Buildertrend Academy that’s online, which is absolutely fantastic.

Bre Ferris:

Yes.

Joe Christensen:

It’s phenomenal.

Adam Shaeffer:

And so, you can – you know, as a business owner, I can request that my employees get Buildertrend-certified. And so one of those awesome certifications that – what we did with our company is we just said, “Hey, everyone, you are going to get certified as a project manager.” Because the project manager certification covers basically all aspects of Buildertrend, and one of those is scheduling.

So as a business owner or if I’m wanting to start implementing scheduling tools into my business through Buildertrend, that’s the perfect way to start the education for how to use this function, is get certified.

Joe Christensen:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Shaeffer:

Go through the Buildertrend Academy and get certified. So require all of your employees, require your scheduler to go through and get certified. And that will just be the easiest way for them to familiarize themselves with the tools and the functions of scheduling.

Joe Christensen:

Well, and another component, and truthfully we are, I don’t know, I don’t know if – what’s the percentage of contractors that know what a CP schedule is? Adam and I actually, we earned degrees in construction management. We had a semester of just scheduling. And you know, when you really dive deep into construction, I mean there’s people who make their whole career circled around scheduling. And there’s a massive component to it. I know a scheduler who works for a big GC, commercial GC in Kansas City, and then he moved on to be a consultant. And what’s wild is he actually, because he knows the tools and components of scheduling, he actually goes and works for once a year, does audits of schedules for Intel and IBM. Because he knows the components and functionalities of schedules.

And so I do think that one thing that’s important, kind of along your certification, is before anything you’ve got to know the components of schedule. And I keep saying that word, CP, and that’s a critical path schedule. And it’s one of the most – and Buildertrend allows you to create a critical path schedule.

But that alone – like if you don’t know what that is, you’ve got to do a little bit of education and research because there are literally thousands of tasks that one project will have. But not all of them are critical to move the schedule to the next step. You know, you are putting in the foundation. And after the foundation, you are going to be, let’s say, pouring concrete or framing the house. There are multiple steps in there that you’re going – I just gave you three components, but there’s lots of other components that are going to be happening that might not be critical or they are critical, but they’re steps no matter what.

And so I think first and foremost, if you don’t know what a CP schedule is, you’ve got to do some educating to understand that because that’s the fundamental building block of a schedule. And really driving a schedule in a complex construction project.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yeah, totally. You’ve got to, you’ve got to do – and that’s why going back to the Buildertrend Academy, you’re going to get the brief insight on what a predecessor is, what a successor is, what float is, what a lag time is. You know, all these different components of the scheduling. Buildertrend Academy, it’s that introduction to scheduling. So for those that don’t have that scheduling background or haven’t received a formal education on scheduling, Buildertrend Academy, I’d say that’s step one. And then start Googling it, right? Like, then you’ll start really collecting that information. Back to your question where you’re like, “Why is this such a game-changer?” It’s a funny thing, right? A homeowner perceives, you know – you could be bad at communicating, but if you’re on time, you’re a great contractor.

Joe Christensen:

It’s so true. It actually is like it’s maybe the first hurdle and bar. Like if you were just on time.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yes. Because most homeowners will pay more for you to be on time. If you bring up that option of, “Hey, we can wait for this electrician, or we can go with this other electrician that charges $2,500 more, but he’d start tomorrow. What would you like to do?” Nine times out of 10, they’re going to say-

Bre Ferris:

Tomorrow.

Adam Shaeffer:

“I’ll pay the other guy. Let’s do it.” So I would feel like you could suffer at communication. You might be bad at your budgeting or whatnot. If you’re on time, you’re a good contractor.

Joe Christensen:

It’s so true. I mean, really you’re kind of blowing my mind because I’m thinking of all the times when like, the jobs, you know maybe didn’t have all the other components that we like to call a successful job, but it was on time and ultimately profitable and had a happy client and-

Bre Ferris:

Makes all the difference.

Joe Christensen:

It does. I mean it totally – and I think that’s probably why as contractors, it’s the first thing we kind of master or try to master of a schedule because it does have the biggest ROI to it. Like, immediately.

If you do it right, it’s like boom, you got it. But I am shocked how many people, going back to that critical path – I had somebody I know, a contractor who’s been around forever, working on a job. And they were saying to me – I was complaining about the critical path. And they were saying, “Well, things are happening.” And his fundamental lack of what a critical path is was kind of shocking to me because this guy’s very knowledgeable and very experienced. And I was like: “You know what? It doesn’t matter that lots of things are happening. It’s not progressing the next step.” And so, anyway. Yeah.

Adam Shaeffer:

I think one thing, just to be clear, I know this audience is all builders, right? But you said do it right. Right? Like, there is a huge quality component to that, right?

Joe Christensen:

Oh, yeah.

Adam Shaeffer:

If you can build on time and in a quality manner, then you’re a great builder.

Joe Christensen:

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Adam Shaeffer:

It’s not, it’s like don’t just get the job done in a week.

Joe Christensen:

We’re holding quality and budget and everything constant. We’re just saying.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yeah.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah.

Bre Ferris:

So obviously a kind of basic understanding of scheduling in general, knowing some of those key phrases. You mentioned the Buildertrend Learning Academy is a great place to start. So what else do you typically know that you need in your schedule? What other items are we incorporating? Where are we starting? Or where did you start, I should say.

Joe Christensen:

I’ll take a little bit of this. You can…

Bre Ferris:

Little bit of this, a little of that.

Adam Shaeffer:

I’ll back you up, bro.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah.

Adam Shaeffer:

I gotcha. Got it. Back, back, back, back. OK.

Joe Christensen:

So I’m going to back up even a little bit more. I think as contractors, if you kind of go from a 40,000-foot view, what we do is a SS risk. That’s how you bid a project. You look at a project and you’re like, “Wow, this is awesome.” This might be a 2,000-square-foot home, might be a 10,000-square-foot home. Ultimately, there’s risk in either one. There’s risk in the type of client; there’s risk where the lot is or where the project is. There’s risk in the time it’s being built and the schedule that they’re requiring in the budget and then the nitty-gritty details. And so I think when you build out a schedule, you’ve got to have that kind of mindset. Like, what kind of risks are there? We have a template. Maybe we say, “Yeah, on a whole, a home can be built in 10 months to 12 months.” Let’s just say that.

But then, that’s just your baseline. You have to look at every project and say, “OK, what risks are there with this project?” When are they starting? Is there going to be a climate issue? There’s always weather delays, but how many in here? Is there a risk in the type of material they’re trying to ask? Is this stuff imported from China, or is it imported from Italy? There’s going to be two different kinds of components there. Is it imported at all? Is the labor going to be an issue? There’s all kinds of risks that you have to assess and then build into that schedule. And this is a difficult part for all contractors, and I include myself because I am the worst. I’ve graduated in certain things, but I have – I was at one time, I feel like, bad at these things. That’s why I’m saying this. So I’m not trying to speak from a high tower that I’m the best always – I was birthed the best. I was not.

But contractors are overly optimistic. We have to be. We’re in a freaking crazy industry. So we kind of have to be eternal optimists. Like, “We can do it. I know it’s impossible. We can do it.” You’ve got to learn to be a realist, though, and building a schedule is kind of that. You’ve got to be like, “Well, I’ll be optimistic here.” But if you’re too optimistic, you’ll – we all go through this as contractors. We accept too much work, we are overly optimistic, and we get burned. And then you eventually become that grouchy, leathery contractor who knows and says-

Bre Ferris:

A little scorned.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah, a little scorned with the test of time.

Adam Shaeffer:

Oh, yeah.

Joe Christensen:

He says, “No, that house cannot be-“

Adam Shaeffer:

My way or the highway.

Joe Christensen:

That house can only be built in 15 months, and it’s going to have a lot of problems.

Adam Shaeffer:

But the old guy, he’s going to talk in days. He’ll say like-

Joe Christensen:

Oh, shoot.

Adam Shaeffer:

It’ll be done in 111 days.

Joe Christensen:

I know. That’s actually powerful. I love it when they do that.

Bre Ferris:

It’s like when my kid is 47 months old. Oh, I have no idea what that is.

Joe Christensen:

I know.

Bre Ferris:

Thank you for nothing.

Joe Christensen:

I gave up on that a lot when I had kids. I was like, ah-

Bre Ferris:

I’m not a mathematician.

Adam Shaeffer:

He’s less than 1.

Joe Christensen:

He’s less than 1. This-

Bre Ferris:

About yea high.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah. But assessing risk, and I think you’ve got to have some big things that have kind of changed the way I think about a procurement log. You know, do you have a procurement log? Again, that schedule is the funnel to all the stuff that’s in the house.

And the other thing that’s a risk thing, you could call it, like an exposure log. What’s your exposure to this project? What’s the risk exposure? Is it in budget? Is it in selections? Is it the client itself because they are wishy-washy on everything and you have to hold their hands? So all those things are going to factor and the big things – you have to be realistic. And it’s hard because you have to win a job, too, with the schedule. And sometimes that’s ultimately – your pricing is going to, should be linked to a schedule.

Adam Shaeffer:

Totally. To piggyback off that, if I’m building out a template schedule, I’m going to start super high level. Where it’s like I’m going to go through the steps of construction that are what I would perceive as the key steps. So I would start with excavation. I would then go to footing and foundation. I would then go, you know, I would progress with the large items. And then what I would do is I’d get to the finish and then I’d go back, and I would start assigning predecessors, successors, and then I would start adding in the details.

OK, so for us, the way that we’ve done it is we’ve actually, we’ve incorporated template schedules into every aspect of our business. So there actually is a template schedule for pre-construction, which is something I think that might be considered unique. So our homeowners, on day one when they’re starting the design process, we pull up their Buildertrend account and they get to see the pre-construction schedule. How do we get from point A to groundbreaking where we are now? Our pre-construction timeline, it’s seven months. So we set up a calendar for that, for all of that, with milestones. Hey, this is our goal date to complete floor plan design. This is our goal date to complete schematic pricing. But we use template schedules for all facets of our company, starting from the inception when we’re starting pre-con with them. So it just gives them that visual, that snapshot that things are happening behind the scenes.

And you know, we do share that with our clients. We share all the schedules with our clients. I think some builders might feel exposed by doing that, but Buildertrend also has a sweet feature for that to kind of – a little workaround where you schedule as you’re building out your schedule, assign each item to a phase. And that way the homeowners, they’re not going to see all the nitty-gritty details that you want to see and that your guys onsite want to see. They’ll just see the phase-

Bre Ferris:

High level.

Adam Shaeffer:

Of construction. So you won’t get the weird questions of, I don’t know – you may have a soils test in your schedule, and the homeowner starts freaking out. “What was the soils test? Is anything going to go wrong?” Maybe. But they’re going to see the phased approach, and it’s just going to say excavation.

Bre Ferris:

Mm-hmm.

Joe Christensen:

And I think what you’re saying is you’re highlighting something that’s just super important. As a builder, you’ve got to be a visual person that in a sense – not visual, but you’re building it out in your brain, like your mind. You’ve got to be able to imagine it in your mind’s eye. You know what I’m saying?

Adam Shaeffer:

I love that.

Bre Ferris:

Build it, and they will come.

Adam Shaeffer:

It’s pickleball, baby.

Joe Christensen:

Mind’s eye. Well, we could go off on that topic. But you’ve got to take a 40,000-square-foot – not square foot. A 40,000-foot view from the airplane first. And I think, you know, even back up, what we do as we start the project, what Adam was highlighting. First with pre-construction – and what he didn’t highlight is that in pre-construction there are milestones even in the pre-construction that you have to hit. And then during construction we have maybe 12 or 15 milestones that we have and then-

Bre Ferris:

Got a list.

Joe Christensen:

That kind of is that 40,000-foot view. And then you zoom in a little bit more, and then there’s certain critical paths that have to be achieved in those milestones. And then you zoom in even more and you start to see there’s even more tasks and data that need to be inputted in there. And I think you’ve got to start 40,000-foot view to not get overwhelmed and start digging down.

And I think a challenge that we have faced and we still do today, is to get buy-in on that schedule. And I think just talking, I think we could do better at having our PMs really almost create a schedule and present it to us more instead of having a production manager and us do it. Because I do think there’s a powerful tool that as you do this 40,000-foot view, 20,000, 10, 5, you know, and zoom into this. You’re building the house visually, and you can see, “OK, this house is huge, and it has a lot of steel. And what am I going to have to do when we do, when we’ve got steel going on? And what other components can happen; what other things need to happen as I’m doing that?”

And as you build it out and assess all those different things, what will happen is as you use that tool then, when you start construction, it will be a powerful tool then. It won’t just be this, “This a good idea, and we’re going to try to adhere to this.” And it just becomes something that you can put on the shelf. But it becomes this really interactive tool that’s being used every day and collaborative as well.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yeah, definitely. I think as you’re building out your schedule, 100%, take your time. As you’re building it out, make the appropriate assignments. You know, you can assign your excavator to the excavation line item on your schedule so that they will receive notifications when it’s happening. That’s a huge tool that the schedules have.

Bre Ferris:

Delays, and things like that, yeah.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yep.

Bre Ferris:

Yep. Or any shifts.

Adam Shaeffer:

And then I would also say, you know, a lot of times, and I was definitely guilty of this early on where I built out my first template schedule and I said, “Dude, this is it.”

Joe Christensen:

Start.

Adam Shaeffer:

Your schedule is successful when you bring in your subcontractors.

Joe Christensen:

Totally.

Adam Shaeffer:

You know, you need to incorporate them. You need to have that phone call with your electrician. You need to start getting an understanding of, hey, if I have a 4,000-square-foot home, it may take five days to do the rough-in for my electrical. But if that’s an 8,000-square-foot home, I need to have that understanding. So involve your subcontractors when you’re building out a schedule. But it all starts with the template, you know?

Get your template. Get the bones there.

Bre Ferris:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Shaeffer:

Then as the project progresses and you define the scope of work, you just make the appropriate adjustments to accommodate that scope of work, or that home that you’re trying to build.

Joe Christensen:

Well, and that’s when the true magic starts happening, right?

Adam Shaeffer:

Oh, yeah.

Joe Christensen:

Because when you get the subs – and I feel like we’ve just been able to be on this. We’re at the cusp and hitting this, climbing this peak. I don’t think we’re there yet, but we’re getting close where like you’ve got all your key contractors. All your ones that drive the critical path, they are assigned to those tasks. They are accepting the schedule. They’re saying they’re going to be there on Buildertrend, and they’re active in responding, all using the tool. And that is when it becomes this ultimate collaboration tool that it really can and should be. It’s hard to get there, though.

Bre Ferris:

Yeah.

Joe Christensen:

It won’t get there. I mean, it’s taken us a long time to get there where like, you’re getting buy-in from every sub. And then the bad thing is that – we’ve been through this. The detrimental problem is you can build this schedule, and it can look beautiful. But if it’s not active and live every day and it’s not realistic, the subs will learn quick and they will not trust it. And you will have the hardest time building back their testimony of Buildertrend.

And your organization. You know, subcontractors, trades, they want to be – for them to be successful, you have to be successful. And you have to be organized. They’re going to go to the job that is the most organized, that the job is ready, the material is there. They will seek out contractors like that. And the moment things are falling off the rails with you and you can’t put them back on, they’re going to go to your job less. They’re going to send one guy and not their best. And they’re going to charge you more because you’re more of a headache.

Bre Ferris:

Yeah.

Joe Christensen:

We are clients to them, as a GC. And so, they look at us as like, “Oh, are you the problem, GC?” Or are you the one that makes them more successful and super efficient on job sites? And that’s where the schedule has to be active. It has to be something that’s living and breathing and adjusted frequently. And I think that what’s so powerful that Buildertrend has implemented with daily logs into the schedule.

I had no idea until we start doing that, how many subs love to see the daily logs that we’re putting up so they get a live view of what’s going on. You know, I might be – someone might chastise me right now for me not knowing this. I feel guilty already in making this.

Adam Shaeffer:

Why are you looking at me?

Joe Christensen:

I know.

Adam Shaeffer:

You feel like I-

Joe Christensen:

I think you will. I think Adam yells at me-

Adam Shaeffer:

It’s only love here, bro.

Joe Christensen:

Safe zone, right? Safe space.

Adam Shaeffer:

Always, dude.

Joe Christensen:

Safe space. I don’t know if, can a subcontractor put up a daily log?

Adam Shaeffer:

They can comment on them. I know that for sure. They’ve commented on ours.

Joe Christensen:

I feel like some of our subs are bought in enough with us that they would probably put a daily log up. Like, “This is what I did.” And I’d be like, “Dope.” It would be collaborative. I think the more collaborative you can make a schedule, the more active it is because these guys work alongside each other.

Bre Ferris:

Mm-hmm.

Joe Christensen:

It’s such a collaborative approach even. I think gone are the days when people are complaining a lot about, “There’s too many people here. There’s too many subs here.” If you’re organized and you make it collaborative and you’re able to help them play nice with each other – I know they collaborate with our daily logs.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yeah. We were, Joe and I, we were having this same conversation with a good buddy of ours. His name’s Brad, with AFT, and we were talking about this exact thing where, “Dude, we’re going to lose our subcontractors’ confidence in us because our guys, our project managers, they’re not updating their schedules.” He was like, “Dude, fireable offense.”

Joe Christensen:

That’s great.

Adam Shaeffer:

Make it a fireable offense. And we were like, “Oh, freak. Yeah, that’s true.” So then after that conversation, we went back to our office and we came up with daily CCP, is what we call it. And our project managers, they need to do their daily CCP – which is calendar, contact, plan, is what we say. So daily, if necessary, you need to be updating your schedules, and that’s the fastest way to gain confidence from your subcontractors. It’s the fastest way to get a subcontractor to your site.

If you have an updated schedule and you make a phone call, they will answer it. But it’s also the most detrimental. If you’re not updating your schedules, you will slowly feel that they are not answering the phone every time that you call, or you’re going to start waiting a week, two weeks.

Bre Ferris:

Awesome. Amazing. And subs can make daily logs, by the way.

Adam Shaeffer:

They can!

Bre Ferris:

Yeah.

Joe Christensen:

We need to do that.

Bre Ferris:

We’ve got, we’re going to blow your mind later.

Joe Christensen:

See, I knew it. I knew. We think we’re super users, but there’s all these-

Bre Ferris:

New things every day.

Joe Christensen:

Little details that we need to start implementing.

Adam Shaeffer:

This just in…

Joe Christensen:

This just in. Subcontractors can-

Bre Ferris:

Another layer of the Buildertrend onion.

Joe Christensen:

Breaking news. This is the way, a better way.

Bre Ferris:

Oh, baby.

Adam Shaeffer:

That’s a better way.

Bre Ferris:

No, so what I’m gathering is that the schedule is the mitochondria, right?

Adam Shaeffer:

Oh, yes.

Bre Ferris:

The powerhouse of the Buildertrend cell.

Adam Shaeffer:

Wow.

Bre Ferris:

I mean the funnel, it’s a huge-

Joe Christensen:

I like the mi-

Bre Ferris:

Mitochondria.

Joe Christensen:

Mitochondria. I suck at pronouncing things.

Bre Ferris:

Mitochondria of the cell.

Joe Christensen:

We’ve hit another version.

Bre Ferris:

But it’s a huge communication-

Adam Shaeffer:

Construction management degree, not a biology degree.

Joe Christensen:

You’re trying to figure out where that’s at? Like, “So is that the part that’s in a cell?”

Bre Ferris:

It’s to the left. It’s the femur.

Joe Christensen:

It’s the nucleus.

Bre Ferris:

Oh, gosh. No. And I think you guys nailed it as well. The schedule is for you, right? For peace of mind for you. But also it’s a huge communication piece with your internal team, your subcontractors, your clients, everybody. And you said you use – you know, we have daily logs. We have sending out the confirmations, logging the notes. Are there any other ways that you’re using the schedule to communicate with all parties involved?

Joe Christensen:

Yeah, I mean, back up to milestones. The clients themselves are integrated in that schedule. So our milestone process is, I often say it’s an internal process that has some checks and balances for the project. It has some quality control where, “Hey, this is a milestone.” One of them is, the framing milestone’s a big one I think about.

We’ve hit a milestone; we’ve dried-in the house. It’s framed. And there is an activity that we know that the clients know. They get this milestone packet, and they see it online. And it’s also linked in our selections that each milestone has certain selections or choices, or whatever, linked that those deadlines are now up. So we know at framing, there’s certain things that you can no longer change without a drastic change order and a delay to the schedule, which is then cost to everyone. And you know, I think as a GC, this is something that I often hear me saying to younger people that are joining the industry. As a GC, it is your job. You have complete ownership; you better own that entire job. The moment you accept it, you’re in charge of the architect. You’re in charge of the interior designer, if you don’t have it in-house. You’re in charge of the city. You’re in charge of everybody.

So you’ve got to have a process to manage those people. And you’re in charge of the client – because the client, ultimately, they’re hiring you as the expert. And I’ve been in lots of angry meetings when people have said that to me over the years. It is kind of an ‘a-ha’ moment, like, “You’re the expert; you need to tell me.” And so that’s a big component about being a GC is the client doesn’t get to build the home their way. We actually were confused and thought at one point in our business – we had a tagline. I laughed about it.

Adam Shaeffer:

Oh, yeah.

Joe Christensen:

I don’t know. We don’t say it anymore because it’s kind of ridiculous when I think about it. It was called “Your Home Your Way.” And I’m like, “This is such BS.” It’s never your way. You’re building it my way.

Bre Ferris:

This is not Burger King.

Joe Christensen:

No, this isn’t Burger King. You don’t get to choose. But they don’t. They don’t know the better way.

And so you’ve got to manage them. So we do it through a milestone process that at this certain milestone, we’re going to have a meeting. We’ve reached this scheduled milestone, this meeting. We have an agenda attached to that meeting. We’re going to have selection deadlines attached there. We’re going to, we’re going to look at the home. And we’re also internally going to say, “We’ve reached this schedule milestone. What are the checklists, quality control checklists we have to do here? What are the things we must do? What are the activities we have to do to progress the schedule beyond that?” And I do think schedule, you know, you have to schedule everything. There’s all aspects, but the client component is a big one. And those check-ins of the schedule to kind of – each milestone for us is kind of like a moment to stop and say, “OK, let’s have a meeting.”

Bre Ferris:

Real pulse check.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah. Let’s meet onsite, and let’s check things out. And the milestones are obviously what they are – a big milestone. Or what’s another word for milestone? Like, achievement of the house. Like that goal-

Adam Shaeffer:

Goal.

Joe Christensen:

That progresses the home past a certain step and obviously has some important things that we’ve achieved and things that we need to check off and make sure are done. And the clients are very involved in that, and they’re also held accountable to that schedule.

Bre Ferris:

Which is huge.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah, because hey, we’ve had it and I’ve done it. We’ve done it well, and we’ve done it bad where during, after the framing milestone, a client makes a massive change. Like, “I’m going to add, I’m change this covered porch into a dining room. That shouldn’t affect the schedule too much, right?”

Adam Shaeffer:

Not at all.

Joe Christensen:

Not at all. And here’s the worst thing. You get this way as a contractor when you start with certain clients, especially when you get into custom homes and you kind of graduate into different things. And if that’s the route you’re going, you actually get to certain clients who you first say, “OK, they’re going to do this, but it’s going to be freaking expensive. There’s no way they’re going to do it. And plus we’re going to add even more sugar on top to make sure they don’t do it.” So you’re like, “Yeah, we can do that for X amount. They’re never going to say it.” And they’re like-

Bre Ferris:

Absolutely, sign me up.

Joe Christensen:

Absolutely do that. And you’re like, “Crap.” But then you have to also say, you have to really hold it accountable. Because all of a sudden they just disrupted. Now they made it their way. And unfortunately, that does happen in custom building when all of a sudden you’re like, “Freak.” It’s now, they’re now kind of controlling it because they just made a massive change. And you can’t say no unless you’re going to, you know – in true custom building, you can’t really say it. It’s hard to say no.

But you have to then all of a sudden assess all the risks, hand brake, and be like, “How’s this affect my schedule?” And really say, “OK, we’ve now destroyed the past schedule. We have now got to reset everything.” And that’s, again, try not to be the eternal optimist when those things come up. Because sometimes we are always like, “Yeah, we can do that.”

Adam Shaeffer:

Oh, totally. I think, you know, you had asked what are some of the unique things that we add in our schedules or whatnot. To just touch on that real quick. Like delays. I want to make sure that every builder knows and understands that we don’t cause the delays, OK? Let’s put it that way.

In my opinion, there’s four types of delays. There’s weather delays, there’s procurement or material delays, there’s subcontractor delays, and then there’s owner delays. And everything can be tracked back to those four types of delays. Put those delays on your schedules so that they are visible to your homeowners. Or, if you don’t share the calendars, it’s visible to your internal crew. So you can always go back and you can reference the calendar, and you can count how many weather delays there actually were, how many procurement delays there actually were, how many subcontractor delays or owner delays. Put all those delays in your schedules, and it’ll save your butt in the end. One other thing-

Joe Christensen:

I love that, by the way. That was awesome.

Bre Ferris:

It’s a huge data set, too, to reference. Like you can – and that’s how you learn as well.

Adam Shaeffer:

Totally.

Bre Ferris:

Where can we tweak in the future if we know we’re consistently getting a delay here?

Joe Christensen:

Yeah. If there’s a trade or a supplier that constantly delays, you either got rid of him or talk to him and say, “Hey, how do we improve this?” Yeah, I mean, it’s the only way you do improve – by measuring your performance.

Adam Shaeffer:

Because we’re doing our job.

Joe Christensen:

We’re the service provider.

Adam Shaeffer:

We are calling. Yep. We are the service provider. We’re calling the subcontractors constantly to try to get them to the job. Contrary to popular belief, we cannot force them. We can do everything that we can. We can incentivize; we can do anything. But I cannot physically force them to come to the job. It’s not technically my fault. So we just need to make sure that that’s visible to our internal crew and to the homeowners.

But one other thing that we do with our schedules is we actually – quite a bit of our jobs are cash jobs. And so we also put up a payment schedule-

Joe Christensen:

That’s huge.

Adam Shaeffer:

On the schedule. And we give them a four-week-in-advance notice. “Hey, on this date or this milestone, there’s a payment of $183,000.”

Joe Christensen:

Yeah, liquidate those stocks before then because we need the payment.

Adam Shaeffer:

Totally. So like, that’s a huge component of this schedule. It really helps on those cash jobs where I can populate my payment schedule at the very beginning of the project and not necessarily have to go back and think about it during the process. And then I get the email from the homeowner that says, “Oh, hey, I just saw the notification.” Because I can assign it to them, and it will alert them. “I owe a payment in four weeks” – and yeah, you totally do. It’s coming up.

Bre Ferris:

Gosh darn right.

Adam Shaeffer:

Let’s get it ready. And so that’s another thing that we do on the cash jobs. Cash payments-

Bre Ferris:

Little nuggets, everywhere.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah.

Bre Ferris:

Gold nuggets.

Joe Christensen:

You’re good at sharing those by the way, Adam. That was great.

Bre Ferris:

Little gold nuggets.

Joe Christensen:

I loved it.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yeah. It’s Cardinal Crest for the people. Always.

Bre Ferris:

For the people.

Joe Christensen:

We build for the people.

Bre Ferris:

For the people.

Joe Christensen:

Not their way, though. It’s our way.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yes.

Bre Ferris:

OK. So I think – thank you for the golden nuggets here and there. But what other quick wins or pro tips do you have for the listeners out there about scheduling? Because it can be a little scary. I know you guys said that from the womb of buildership-

Joe Christensen:

Yeah.

Bre Ferris:

Scheduling is the bread and butter, but-

Joe Christensen:

It is.

Bre Ferris:

It’s a little bit different when it’s surrounded by a ton of other features. So what are some pro tips, some quick wins that you have?

Adam Shaeffer:

OK, I’ve got a couple more. So-

Bre Ferris:

Nuggets.

Joe Christensen:

Do it.

Adam Shaeffer:

When you are building out your template, right?

Bre Ferris:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Shaeffer:

And you have a project manager, one of your in-house guys, and let’s just say I’m X company and I have six project managers. So I don’t want to have six different templates that have an assignment to each one of my project managers. I want to make sure I put in a test name or something for this project manager, so then when this schedule goes live, I can update that user and assign it to one of my project managers. That’s incredibly helpful. And you can do that even with your subcontractors as well. So if you’re a builder that uses four different electricians, you’ve got four different excavators, you know, you can update the template schedule. If you’re using this blank name, I don’t know what I’m trying – a generic name for that particular subcontractor. That’s huge, and that’s awesome.

Another thing I would suggest is start small. Start with the base template schedule. Once you have that in place, then start assessing your business. How many pools am I doing a year? How many remodels am I doing a year? Am I doing basement finishes? Am I doing additions? Then let’s start creating template schedules for each one of those specific tasks or jobs that you might get. And that’s just going to help speed up production. You’re not going to feel overwhelmed when you do get this basement finished and think, “Freak, I got to build out another schedule for this.” Start big with the one schedule and then start populating your templates with specific, more specific templates depending on the scope of work. A new build with a basement finish. A new build, basement finish and pool. You know, those types of things are really going to make your business a lot more efficient.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah, I think a lot of people might, if they’re custom, might think like every house has to be built out in a custom template. Like, “I can’t have templates.” Like the idea of a template is too – almost for production builders. But I think what you’re saying is spot on. You’ve got to have a bones, a road map. And then as you get into each job, then you’ll be able to get into the details and add those.

Adam Shaeffer:

Oh, yeah.

Joe Christensen:

And it’s super repeatable what we do. I mean, it’s-

Adam Shaeffer:

Oh, dude. And then just think the production guys, the guys that are building 1,000 homes a year that use Buildertrend.

Bre Ferris:

Plug and chug.

Joe Christensen:

 Oh, heck yeah.

Adam Shaeffer:

I want a schedule for each one of the floor plans.

Joe Christensen:

I know.

Adam Shaeffer:

That I use. That’s huge-

Joe Christensen:

A dream.

Adam Shaeffer:

For them. So, you know, if you are building the 500 homes a year that whatever, and you’re building specific floor plans, have a template schedule per each floor plan that you’re using.

Joe Christensen:

And then, the hardest thing about all this, right, we’re talking about great theory and great wins and successes. I’ve touched on it a little bit, but you’ve got to – you have to be consistent at it. Don’t get overwhelmed, or don’t start by trying to make this beautiful schedule that you’re not going to update daily or weekly. You know, it’s really cool to implement these notifications, these to-do’s. I mean, you’ve got so many layers in Buildertrend schedule that you can add into, that eventually should be there. But if you don’t have a schedule that you’re updating daily or weekly, scrap all of it.

Baseline is you have a three-week schedule that you’re updating every day. And then when you get more successful at that and people, and you’re a believer and your team’s a believer, then start upping your game and adding in more layers. Then you’re going to start seeing the powerful tool and all the different details you can get into and see that magic that happens when the subs are involved.

But if you don’t do the basic steps, it’s going to suck. And the other thing is, you’ve got to hold everyone accountable. I mean, we’ve had PMs who just don’t believe in it. And as Adam says, it is, it’s a fireable offense. Because it is a roadblock. It’s a mito … mitochondria?

Bre Ferris:

Mitochondria.

Joe Christensen:

Of-

Adam Shaeffer:

Building.

Joe Christensen:

Woof, 320 days to finish that home. You got to-

Adam Shaeffer:

Yeah, I get the days. Got to get the days. That’s cool. It doesn’t take me 14 months.

Joe Christensen:

No.

Adam Shaeffer:

It takes me-

Joe Christensen:

365 days-

Adam Shaeffer:

Yeah.

Joe Christensen:

And seven hours. But I think you’ve got to stay on top of it. The moment it stops becoming a living schedule, it’s just, it’s going to be detrimental in so many ways.

Bre Ferris:

Throw it out the window.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah. And so again, baby steps in it. Do the most basic thing, three-week look-ahead. You don’t even have to have a true CP Gantt chart awesome schedule. Because some of these people are only two-man crews or – you know, a lot of builders are only two-man crews or one-man crew. And they’re some of the best builders out there. They’re true craftsmen and artisans. They’re doing one home a year, but they still need a schedule. And you know what, honestly, a three-week schedule that’s updated, that’s accurate, that’s assessing risks, and he’s looking at it daily can be just as powerful as all the other stuff we’re talking about if it’s done correctly.

Now, I do believe the other layers are super cool and become more powerful. And like, it’s how you scale when you add in all those little nuggets and details like Adam’s talking about in all these little things. It’s how you scale to do more than one home. And that’s where Buildertrend really adds to that. It adds fuel to the fire, so you can scale that.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yeah. One other strategy that I’ve heard other builders do with their scheduling templates is they do have two templates per entire schedule. Meaning, they have one template that they will do from groundbreaking up until drywall finish, and that will be the first half-

Bre Ferris:

Got you.

Adam Shaeffer:

Of construction. And then they have the latter half, drywall to completion. And that way they will then just import the finish schedule once they get to drywall.

So I think there’s pros and cons to that strategy. It works for, you know – I feel like there is a builder out there that might be, “Oh, dude, I don’t want to have the whole thing up. You know, it takes me forever.” Or, “My home is so custom that I want to make sure that my project manager is hyper focused on getting to the drywall milestone.”

Joe Christensen:

He’s just splitting it in two milestones.

Adam Shaeffer:

He’s splitting it up into two phases essentially.

Joe Christensen:

Yeah.

Adam Shaeffer:

So I’ve heard some builders have that strategy to it, which makes sense, I think.

Bre Ferris:

Awesome. Amazing. And that’s the way the cookie crumbles with Cardinal Crest.

Adam Shaeffer:

Boom.

Bre Ferris:

We’ll put that on a T-shirt, too.

Joe Christensen:

Oh, I love it.

Bre Ferris:

Well I appreciate you guys giving us the insight and scheduling mitochondria. Trademarked.

Adam Shaeffer:

Yeah.

Bre Ferris:

By Bre and Joe and Adam.

Joe Christensen:

Boom.

Adam Shaeffer:

Perfect.

Bre Ferris:

That’s all she wrote.

Adam Shaeffer:

A better way.

Bre Ferris:

Awesome. Thank you guys.

Adam Shaeffer:

Mm-hmm.

Bre Ferris:

Thanks for listening to “The Better Way.” If you’re a Buildertrend customer, schedule a training session to learn more tricks for applying software within your business. All listeners, be sure to rate, review and subscribe to “The Better Way” wherever you get your podcasts. Visit buildertrend.com/podcast to sign up for the email notifications when the next season drops and explore our original podcast, “The Building Code.”

And we hope you aren’t going anywhere because there’s more Joe and Adam in our next episode. Keep listening to hear how they make the selections process easy for their team and for their clients. And just like this episode, they’ll even talk about their templates and established processes for the often complicated stage of the builder journey.