Capitalizing on the outdoor contractor off-season with Corey Halstead

Zach Wojtowicz:

Welcome to The Building Code, I’m Zach Wojtowicz.

Charley Burtwistle:

And I am Charley Burtwistle.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Today, we have Corey Halstead on the pod, to talk a little bit about the content marketing world in construction.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, super interesting story with Corey here. Obviously, he started at a very early age mowing lawns, and he saw a need for something a little bit more. He eventually moved in the building space and eventually, actually moved into the product side of things. And then, he saw another need for the outdoor living space, pool builders in general, to market to their customers better. So, I think that’s going to be what he talks a little bit about today. We’ll save some fire power for him, but yeah, let’s get him on the pod.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Corey’s got an extensive background in the construction industry, which is pretty awesome. We bring on guests all the time, and I think we have a unique opportunity here to go places we don’t normally always get to. Got a lot of new home builders, we’ve had people who are working in the material supply side. Corey’s here to talk to us about the off-season of outdoor living and that growing part of the industry. But Corey, go a little bit deeper. You have a pretty extensive background in marketing and digital marketing and how to really do a design build with a marketing and education spin on it.

Corey Halstead:

Yeah, yeah. I think it’s an exciting segment of construction, right? For the whole industry and for you guys in particular, it’s rapidly growing. So, I listen to the podcast. I hear a lot of interior guys and yeah, I’m excited to bring the pool and luxury landscape space into the light here the best I can. Yeah, basically I grew up in the industry, right? The whole outdoor living thing. I was in New York mowing a lawn at 13 years old for my uncle’s business and all my friends were playing and doing cool things, and I was behind a lawnmower. That was my introduction to the whole outdoor industry. But, pretty quickly I transitioned from anything maintenance-related to the design and build side of the industry.

Corey Halstead:

Yeah, just everything from being on hands and knees in the field, working my way up through designing and building those projects, and then quickly transitioning to the sales and marketing side of that whole space. Even spent some time on the product side, working at the dealer level and the manufacturer level. Yeah, I guess it’s all three segments of that industry coming together. Then seeing, I guess, just all along the way, the gaps of the vendors that I was working with and how they didn’t really understand the space that they were trying to market. I’m like, “Well, this seems broken. You don’t really know the customer.” Agencies are great. They come on. They quick learn, but there’s nuances I think, of the luxury construction world that, I don’t know, man. I don’t know if you can learn those things in a four-month period.

Corey Halstead:

So, that’s what we set out to do at Halstead and still every day in and day out, that’s the space that we spend all of our time in.

Charley Burtwistle:

Well, it’s awesome to have you on today, Corey. Like you said, maybe an underrepresented segment of construction landscape here on the podcast. SO, honored to have you here to represent and a really, really interesting background you talked about, originally starting out working in the field, outside pushing a lawnmower. Is getting into product and obviously now marketing, was that always something that interested you? Or, you were doing your job and you realize a gap in the space and you just transitioned to that? Then, you realized another gap and transitioned to that? Or, is this all part of your elaborate plan?

Corey Halstead:

Yeah, yeah. I’d like to say it was all part of the plan. No, I think, it always was, right? I’ve always been design and creative oriented. So, pretty quickly I think, that’s why I latched on to the design build side, right? Creating something from nothing, watching it through craftsmanship come to life. So, for me, it was always the perfect balance of creativity and craftsmanship, right? So, I’ve always had that. And then, when I started to see the different segments of the industry, or just how different companies and competitors were marketing themselves, or even companies that I worked for, firms that I worked for, that I was like, “Man, if we would just do this and that, that seems so obvious to me. Why don’t we do that?”

Charley Burtwistle:

Right.

Corey Halstead:

And just the opportunity, really. So, we’re nine years old at Halstead. So, we’ve been at it for a little while, right? Right before that, is when I really was like, “OK, so this industry is exploding. It’s going to continue to explode. And there’s just going to be this need for, for elevating it, right? From a brand and marketing maturity, right?” The industry is coming to maturity in terms of all these exciting things, marketing and digital and automation and all this stuff. So…

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah, we’ve had a few guests talk about that experience as well of, if you’re not going digital, if you’re not adapting to the way that the technological trends are going, you’re already behind, because there are builders like yourself and other people who, they’re already looking into technology that maybe is five, 10 years out, in order to achieve it. And what customers are you working with at Halstead Media? What is it that you are really providing to someone who comes to you guys?

Corey Halstead:

Yeah. So, what mode is it? I guess, 99% outdoor contractors. Well, I shouldn’t say that. 99% outdoor living industry businesses.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Halstead:

So, within that, is pretty heavily, luxury project-oriented contractors. So, pool and landscape-focus guys, lighting, outdoor lighting, fencing, everything that goes into this entire outdoor living space that these folks are creating, these talented people. And then, we work with the dealers of the products and the manufacturers of the products that they install. So, those three segments, but all focused exterior design build.

Charley Burtwistle:

So, you get the full spectrum of the entire landscape, all the way from the builders to the manufacturers and everything. That’s really interesting. Maybe, I guess before we dive in too much deeper, we jumped in right away. Could you give us a brief high-level overview of what Halstead does? Zach and I were on your.com today and super, super interesting stuff. A ton of good content out there. But, maybe just for our listeners out there, that this may be the first time they’re hearing of it, just 30,000-foot overview?

Corey Halstead:

Yeah, sure thing, man. Yeah. So, we are a full system provider. So, really we start at the site, we go through paid search. Or, I should say search, so organic search and paid search, organic social and paid social. And then, the site sits at the center of that, and then all the data and analytics that go along with that. And then, we do a ton of content production, primarily in the form of video, out in the field. And then, some written content development as well for these guys, in terms of blogging and things like that. So, the core stack is the site, paid search, paid social, organic search, organic social, data analytics and content development. And that’s evolved, right? So, if I think back to when we started, we would take things as they came a little bit, like I guess, most businesses that start out do, right?

Corey Halstead:

If somebody wanted to run a paid social campaign for six months, we would run it and that would be it. And if they wanted to stay on, they could. But, what we realized about two years ago, was we looked at all these customers, right? The happiest ones, the best case studies, the ones that we felt proudest and most happy with the results, and their business results. And we saw that it was basically this combination. We call it the system that we offer now. And basically, at this point, moving forward, we know exactly who’s a great fit for us. We’ve realized that, about $2 million, or so annual, is the threshold to where we are still effective, but not too much annual spend for their revenue. And the meat and potatoes is somewhere between that $2 and $15 million annual revenue contractor, is a really great fit for our systems.

Corey Halstead:

And we’ve designed them in a way that is industry specific, it’s everything that they need, but nothing that they don’t, right? What they would get from some big, more bloated agency, or somebody who doesn’t know the industry well. And we got all the data, right? From all of these hundreds of case studies that are industry specific across the country and into Canada. So, when we see, “OK, this works, this doesn’t. Put it together into a system.” Everything is integrated and that’s really the bread and butter of what we do.

Charley Burtwistle:

That’s super interesting. You’re getting a perspective of different regions and the marketing trends that are effective in those areas. Are you noticing any one area is more effective than others? Are there any trends that you’re noticing in these different locations that are helping these businesses reach a broader audience?

Corey Halstead:

I tell you I know this sounds overused or whatever, but the content side of this space is so exciting, man. I mean, it is telling the story, right? And I know you’ve had people on before that I’ve listened to and telling the story of what these guys actually do. And gals, day in and day out, is the really exciting part, right? And there’s pockets, right? I always say this, when I’m talking to potential clients. I’m like, “Yes, we have all this data. And we have all these case studies and we have this industry knowledge, but there’s little nuances, right? Within each pocket, within each market. Even terminology in the industry for products and things. They’re just very different across different markets.” But, I think the most exciting thing as a foundation, is if we can just get behind the scenes a little more and tell what’s actually happening, it’s so exciting from that standpoint. And then, you can push it out, wherever you want to in the system, right? Because, it fuels everything.

Charley Burtwistle:

And Corey, rarely do we get to talk about data on the podcast here-

Zach Wojtowicz:

This is Charley’s wheelhouse.

Charley Burtwistle:

I was going to say-

Zach Wojtowicz:

All our listeners know Charley’s the data guy, we try to work it in.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah-

Zach Wojtowicz:

He’s over here shaking in his chair.

Charley Burtwistle:

I just, yeah. Can hardly-

Corey Halstead:

You know I’m one for that, Charley.

Charley Burtwistle:

Exactly. I appreciate it. We’re actually hiring a data scientist right now. So, if you’re looking to jump ship, or if there’s any data scientists listening-

Zach Wojtowicz:

Hey, CorpDev partnership, we can do that. We’ll get a collab going.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. But, Corey you and I might have to talk sometime when we don’t have people listening and we can geek out on data together. But-

Corey Halstead:

Right on.

Charley Burtwistle:

The content side is super interesting. And I think that we’re seeing similar trends with some of our customers too. We mentioned a little bit ago, on the cutting edge of what people can do as far as marketing and content. The types of customers that you’re working with are your typical customer, maybe. Is this the first time that they’re doing anything like that? And maybe, for some of our listeners out there that don’t have a content strategy, what would you recommend to them to get up and going?

Corey Halstead:

Yeah. At this point, most of the folks that are coming to us have at least dabbled in content-

Zach Wojtowicz:

I’ve got a Facebook.

Corey Halstead:

Yeah, yeah. They’ve done some SEO, they’ve done some-

Zach Wojtowicz:

Website.

Corey Halstead:

They’ve they’ve dabbled, right? But, I guess nowadays, the most common, is they’ve dabbled a lot. They’ve had some minor successes, but not a lot of wins there. Maybe, even a little skeptical of what works and what doesn’t. And that’s my deal. I don’t know if it’s the years in the field, or being in the industry. Or, knowing these guys and gals so well, but we got to know what works, right? Somehow, we got to figure out what’s actually driving returns, so that we can do a whole hell of a lot more of it and less of what’s not, right? So, I think, that’s the situation now, but I guess it’s interesting, because I would say that, even when they do come to us, the thing that needs the most boost, is the content, right?

Corey Halstead:

And really understanding how that piece fits into making everything else move, right? It’s so critical. So, I guess if somebody is just starting out, I always say this, I use this thing that in past presentations, that seem to work well. It’s, “View the project from the eyes of a media company, or a magazine or a website, right? Think about that project, not holistically, just logistically and production and staff management and all those amazing things that have to happen, but just back up from it a little bit and think about it, like it was TV, right?” Which, just gets in the mindset. And then, you can start to film little bits and pieces of it with your phone. And it gives you an understanding of, “Look, if we really nailed down this story, project by project, and then we can piece it together in, what makes you as a company tick and why you choose those projects and why you do this, then that’s really the foundation of everything else.”

Zach Wojtowicz:

Is that a struggle for builders? That they don’t see the value in the marketing piece a lot? Or, they need to be shown the impact from a numbers standpoint to say, “Okay, this is worth the spend”?

Corey Halstead:

Yeah, yeah, right? I mean, think about their life day in and day out. It’s very concrete, right? No pun intended-

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah.

Corey Halstead:

Right? So, it’s a gray space. And I guess, I don’t know. That’s what a lot of folks say. We try to make this as, I don’t know, productized, as concrete, as data driven as possible, while still being within their budget. But, yeah man, I think unfortunately, just like in the construction industry, there’s a lot of people that do it wrong, right? And if you get a couple of those people that took a bunch of money from you over the course of your 10 years in business, and then here comes another one that says, “No, no, no. No, really-“

Zach Wojtowicz:

This time-

Corey Halstead:

This time.

Zach Wojtowicz:

This time.

Corey Halstead:

This time. One more chance. Then, they’re like, “Yeah, yeah. I heard this story before.” So, yeah, it is, it’s a struggle.

Charley Burtwistle:

Well, I think that’s where the data aspect comes into play, that you mentioned is, men lie, women lie, but numbers don’t. So, if you can actually come in and say, “No, we can improve your content. We can improve the number of leads you’re getting, and number of sales you’re getting, and we’ll track it to show that lift.” I mean, that’s insights that companies never heard before, and that’s a big selling point of Buildertrend as well too. Very analogous in that, similarities there, of like, “Hey, enter in all your data and you’ll actually be able to track, are you more profitable? Are you more timely with your requests and things like that.” So, I imagine that has to be a pretty good selling point for you guys as well, too?

Corey Halstead:

Yeah. So, so important. And I always say this, “Look, we’re not perfect, right? So, I want to know, and my team wants to know just as much as you want to know, right?” So, if something is in there, that’s like, “Wow, man, we thought this was going to do this. And it did this, instead.” I mean, I don’t know. That’s interesting to me, right? Like, “Okay, well, why?” And now why can’t we fix it, so that it can work better for you moving forward? Right? So, I think the second thing that we all think like, “Hey, I’ve done this a hundred times. I know how it’s going to go. And I’ve got nothing left to learn.” That’s the dangerous part. And I think the data always helps me continue to keep learning things. And yeah, right down to the… What jives me up is, “Can we track this spend back to revenue, right?”

Charley Burtwistle:

Right.

Corey Halstead:

“Here’s Mrs. Jones, she came in from an organic search, originally. Here, she hit your dashboard in your call and form tracking. Here you went out and so-and-so salesperson went out to that lead. And then, you closed the $200,000 backyard and you built it.” Bam-

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Corey Halstead:

That’s the story, right? That’s the story. Now, it’s dangerous, because if you get too much and I know, being a data person, Charley maybe, this is, I don’t know. Gray. But, there’s brand. And there’s long-term value and all of these-

Charley Burtwistle:

Oh yeah.

Corey Halstead:

Other things, right? That we can’t get lost too much in the data, but it helps to tell the story. And I think, that’s the key thing.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Do you have a preferred channel, when a customer comes to you? That you think is the best investment that has the highest return of potential, that you would recommend someone to go after, if they’re getting started in digital media and content?

Corey Halstead:

Yeah. I mean, I think, the giants of social are hard to ignore, man. I think, if you do just even a touch of good video and good content and you distribute it on Instagram and Facebook for this industry, and if you’re in the commercial side, LinkedIn is interesting now in terms of their platform. Then, I think that, it’s just too big to ignore that one. The way we always positioned it, is… And this goes back to that system, right? No different than how you install a pool and steps. And if you skip the one on the bottom, then the whole thing falls apart, or if a patio, or whatever you’re doing. Then, the same is true, right? So, we always do this short-term, mid-term and long-term vision plan essentially, right?

Corey Halstead:

So, it’s like, “Look, depending on where we are in terms of our goals, right?” It used to be more common that, “Okay, I want an increase in leads.” And it’s like, “Okay, well, this is how we do that.” Or, more now it’s, “I want an increase in a very specific type of lead.” That’s really where we spend most time now, driving leads is pretty easy these days, honestly, driving the right ones is where it gets interesting, right? So, driving those and then… So, we always do this short and mid-term. So, paid search is going to bring it in quickest, but there’s less quality checks along the way.

Corey Halstead:

And then, paid social, maybe they’re not in the market for it, but you know, that they’re a great fit for it. And then, organic social is in there and you’re building your community. And then, organic searches, the long-term effort, that quality of lead is probably best across everything, in terms of a long-term investment. But yeah, if you’re just starting out and looking to grow, or to go from $1 million to $2.5 million, or something to get to that step, a little bit of content and some good organic social with some layered-on paid social, is a really exciting space, I think.

Charley Burtwistle:

So, zooming out a little bit, you talk about all the customers and, and the data points that you have. Obviously, you’re able to see some pretty interesting trends and in the pool building and outdoor living, landscaping space has been a really interesting area for the past year and a half. We actually did a blog post about it, a data insights blog a few months ago with just how COVID-19 and the working from home, people are spending more time at home. They want to improve their living space. They want to improve their outdoor living space. What have the, call it past two years look like for the industry as a whole? And maybe, some insights that you guys have seen, based on some of the data and customers that you guys are talking to?

Corey Halstead:

It has been a wild-

Charley Burtwistle:

A word, wild.

Corey Halstead:

Wild. I mean, I don’t know. Listen, how many years, right? Have I been somewhat connected in one way, or another to this industry? I’ve never seen anything like it. The clients that I talk to, the people I know in the industry never seen anything like it. I was on a call the other day and I said… So, I was speaking to an owner of a pool building business, and he was explaining to me, all of the trouble, right? The material shortage, the labor crisis shortage. And I’m like, “See, this is why we’re crazy as business owners, right?” Because, here we should be sitting like, “Oh my God, I got more demand than I could ever need. I can cherry pick my projects, and life is great.”

Corey Halstead:

And then, it’s like, “Oh yeah. Oh, and you can’t get shells, and you can’t get pipe, and get anybody in the field.” So, if it’s not one thing, it’s another. But yeah. I mean, these 100% increase year over year in projects. I mean, this is unheard of, right? And it was weird, because it happened really quickly, right? Everybody got a little scared and tightened up. Luckily, everybody stayed course in terms of their plan. And it happened pretty quick. It was like, “Oh wait, OK, no indoor, no travel. Ding, ding, they’re going to be in the backyard.” And it was pretty quick, when it transitioned over. But, I tell you, it’s difficult to navigate right now. It really is, for a lot of these guys. And I don’t know how it’ll pan out, but we spend a ton of time talking about and trying to help support labor.

Corey Halstead:

Because, you would think, right? “Okay, we’ve got all this demand. Let me ramp up my team and meet this demand and make it happen.” But, the labor shortages is critical and material shortage, but it’s not all bad, right? The ones that are positioned to ride this storm and benefit the best from it, there’s an opportunity here, I think, right? They can be incredibly selective with the things that they’re taking on, which I know a lot of the folks that you have on in the past… The industry is changing, it’s really about curating a life inside this industry, right?

Corey Halstead:

Not everybody wants to ramp up to meet 100% increase in demand. It’s not like it used to be like, when I was young in this industry, where I just saw everybody try to do as much as they can. It’s different now. So, yeah, it’s exciting. They get to cherry pick it, they get to build a body of work that they’re proud of, right? That they can stand behind. And so, I don’t know. I think, it’s going to get interesting to see how different businesses try to meet this demand and try to solve for the things in the way of meeting it.

Zach Wojtowicz:

We started off talking about the outdoor living, contractor lifestyle and the things they’re focusing on. Well, we’re heading into the off-season. And that means that demand is going to decrease a little bit, hopefully, maybe not. Depends on where you’re at in the country, of course. What are some of the things that you can do? And this, assumed the lull, to improve operational strategies, or to avoid common mistakes that people do in the off-season typically?

Corey Halstead:

Yeah. Yeah, so like you said, right? It depends on where they’re at, how much of that off-season they get, and how much they don’t. But, overall, a lot of the country gets that. It’s really interesting. That used to be, even when we first started doing this at Halstead, it used to be this huge dip and spike in marketing activity and sales activity. And it used to be this thing with, “Well, nobody wants to talk about a pool when there’s snow on the ground, or nobody wants to talk about the backyard.” And that was already changing so rapidly, two years prior to COVID and then, like a lot of people say, and I agree, COVID just sped up a lot of the trends that were happening all over, in all different industries.

Corey Halstead:

So, it was already trending to, “Huh, everybody’s realizing that the off-season is just a different season, right?” It’s sales season, it’s preparing and there was still revenue coming in and more so each year. And then, COVID just made it, “Man, now winter’s crazy busy for everybody.” Because, everybody wants to count schedule before, there’s no more pools to put in the ground. But, it’s interesting. I think, what it’s always been, has been a time to regroup, right? Look at historicals a little bit more in depth. Plan of course, the strategies and the budgets for the year ahead in terms of messaging and marketing. It’s always been a big content review time, right? For all of our clients that are shooting content all in the on-season, let’s call it. While we’re editing things out, along the way, it’s always a big effort to re-edit a bunch of fresh content for the year ahead, right?

Corey Halstead:

And that’s where it’s a little bit cyclical, right? If you don’t realize the power of the content that you need in the on-season, then it takes a couple of seasons to get yourself to where the off-season really becomes productive. So, I think that’s always what it’s been. And I think this year that’s going to be, I don’t know, I don’t want to say totally different. We’re still going to have to do those things, but I can see these conversations already happening to where it’s like, “Alright, we got slammed this Spring, with demand that we couldn’t handle. And really, the leak in the boat was exposed I think, for a lot of contractors.” They were like, “Well, hang on a second. I thought I had a process for dealing with that. But, that process broke, as soon as the lead gates opened up, like they did, right?” So, I think it’s going to be a lot of marketing automation stuff, automating as much communication, with the potential client and existing client as possible, right?

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah.

Corey Halstead:

I remember when we started this, I was talking and trying to sell marketing automation. And the majority of the industry was not ready to even have that conversation, but now we are, right? And they’re just so busy and they’re going to be that busy. I think again, that salespeople and designers and estimators, they can’t be fielding anything incoming that hasn’t been already run through pre-qualifying layers, somehow. So, I think it’s going to be interesting. I think there’s going to be a lot of that.

Corey Halstead:

I think there’s going to be a lot of… I’m super excited about the calculator-style thing. I know, some guys love it, some guys hate it. But, I think you’re going to see an increase as something that we’ve been messing with for about 18 months to where… Look, let them plan the project a little bit on the website by themselves, right? I do this thing. I’m like, “Let’s all stop.” It’s a complicated industry to build these projects. And depending on how custom these things are, then obviously, maybe it’s impossible. But, for a large chunk of the industry, we can give these folks an idea of what the possibilities are? How much it’ll cost, roughly? And we can get them pretty darn close, right? So, when we talk about overdemand like this, it’s like, “Man, let them pre-qualify themselves a little bit, right?

Zach Wojtowicz:

Right.

Corey Halstead:

They come on the site, they choose the pool shape that they want, they choose their coping, they choose the surrounding area. They choose whether they want lights and softscapes and everything else. And bam, this is roughly what your price is going to be. And then, off goes the people that wanted to pay half that and before your team even touches it and come on now, to the next level of pre-qualifying for those that want to spend that, right? And then, it can go to… I mean, we’ve even seen people add a new role, or they use an office staff member to take it the next step pre-qualifying, before it goes off to the sales team. So, I think it’s the year of process and optimization.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Why do you think there was so much fear in that automation a few years ago? Where does that come from? Is it a control thing? Is it a customer experience thing? That, there was this, “Oh, if it’s automated, then it’s impersonal and it’s something that feels like I’m not taking care of you.” And now, we’ve had this shift. Because, I agree, and you look at just, even the manufacturing, more builders are buying pre-manufactured material to help build the house, because of the labor shortage. There’s these connections where obviously, automation isn’t just marketing. It’s just construction in general because of the fact that we don’t have the bodies to go build. We’re going to have to find ways to still deliver the products because there’s still going to be people with homes, right? So, what was the fear? What has shifted that fear?

Corey Halstead:

Yeah. I think, you hit it. I think it was, depending again on the size of the company, there’s this hands-on feel, right? That’s difficult to maybe, let go of sometimes, or difficult-

Charley Burtwistle:

Or, just control freaks. They just want to-

Corey Halstead:

Yeah.

Charley Burtwistle:

Right?

Corey Halstead:

Yeah, when you spend all day talking about minor details that most people don’t see-

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah.

Corey Halstead:

But, I think it was a lot that. I think honestly, just the maturity of the industry too, and the marketing that’s possible. Also, probably, in those nine years. But, I think it’s just, now there’s a necessity and now the marketing knowledge, or whatever is a little more mature. So, “Oh, OK.” And it starts gradual, right? Five years ago it was, “Hey, is it possible to just send an email automatically when that lead comes in?” It’s like, “Yeah, dude, we can make that happen.” And then, it goes a next step on. And then, again, just like everything else that we do, if you can take it back to be, “Look, you’re going to free up Joe, so he can go do that, and you’re going to free up this person and you’re going to weed out.” And I think that’s when it gets like, “OK, all right. I can do that. Even though I’m not going to do it hands-on.”

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, once you realize that it can, it’s got to be relieving. “Oh, I don’t have to do it all, right?” And I think that’s similar to a lot of, not just your target audience, but a lot of the contractors that we talk with, and a lot of Buildertrend internally. It’s like, “Hey, let’s be more automated, let’s be more hands-free. One, because it’ll make us more productive. And two, that’s what a lot of customers now want in a sales process.” They want to sign up online. They want to go through automated onboarding. If there’s a calculator on a .com where I can see what it’s going to cost me, I want to do that as opposed to talking to someone.

Corey Halstead:

Yup.

Charley Burtwistle:

So, it’s really a, win-win not just internally for your company, but externally for your customers as well too. There’s [crosstalk 00:31:38]. Probably a balance, right? You don’t want to be so automated that you don’t talk to anybody, but automated enough to…

Zach Wojtowicz:

Right.

Corey Halstead:

To go up at the job. Like, “Oh, I didn’t think there was any real people, in this company.”

Zach Wojtowicz:

This house is built by robots.

Corey Halstead:

I agree. And that’s a great point actually, about what the customer wants, right? We always got to remember to go back to, “OK, look, we got to run a business here, but what does the consumer expect? Number one. And what do they want? Right? And that’s the stuff that we talk about. It’s, “Look, maybe we could get rid of, or minimize the form submission.” I’m like, “They just want to book a call to a calendar. Can we just make them do that?” It gives them control when they’re ready. And then, we always talk about this. The salesperson is digital now, right? They’ve been looking at your Instagram and your website for, I think the stat is 90 days, or something for a long project. They have met you and know more about you by the time they ever book a call, or fill out a form, just give them what they already want-

Zach Wojtowicz:

You’ve been vetted. Thanks Google. They’re just out here to sell me out before I even talk to this customer.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Well, Corey, I think, unfortunately, we’re coming up on time here. This has been super, super interesting. I think you represented the underrepresented outdoor living area and did the industry very well on the podcast today. Any listeners out there that want to know more, I’d definitely encourage you to go out to Halsteadmedia.com. We’ll have a link in the show notes, but I was reading through some of your blog stuff today. And even if you’re not in the outdoor living space, a ton of really, really good content and informational stuff there. So, check it out. Corey, anything else? Final remarks you want to leave us with here?

Corey Halstead:

I just want to say thanks so much, man. It’s a fun way to spend some time here, and keep up the great work and thanks for having me on.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Did you accept Charley’s job proposal? I missed that.

Corey Halstead:

Yes, it’s accepted.

Zach Wojtowicz:

All right, we’ll talk. Perfect.

Charley Burtwistle:

Thanks Corey, have a great day.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Thanks Corey. Thanks for coming on.

Corey Halstead:

Thanks.

Zach Wojtowicz:

So, Charley, what are our takeaways?

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, I thought, he was definitely right. That was an area, the construction industry that we have not talked about a whole lot on the podcast before. It reminded me of a couple episodes ago when we were talking about the Association for Professional Builders and just how builders, landscapers, remodelers, trade contractors, how they can be on the cutting edge. We talk a lot about Buildertrend and technology. And I think a lot of our conversation here was like, you can also be on the cutting edge from a marketing standpoint, producing content, being better with client communication, better websites, obviously the more and more leads you get, the more and more jobs you can do, the more and more money you can make. So, this was an eye opening episode for me, I would say. Of just, nobody has really thought about that. Or, some people are starting to think about that, but a lot of people I feel, are still… This is new to them. So, hopefully they listen to that episode. They get some takeaways and they start implementing in their business.

Zach Wojtowicz:

And the data plug. I could just feel the-

Charley Burtwistle:

Man.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Tone of the room shift.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah. Biting at the bit there, I was trying to hold back. I could have gone down a lot of rabbit holes from the data perspective there. But yeah, super interesting conversation with Corey and a really good, interesting business, that he has set up with Halstead Media.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Yeah. I think my big takeaway, something that we got to, towards the end there that I thought was really interesting. It was just that automation piece and finding the balance between what does a modern experience look like? What are our customer’s expectations? So, I think you can always play around with. It’ll be interesting to see in future how businesses continue to adapt to these trends of making things come digital online-

Charley Burtwistle:

Right.

Zach Wojtowicz:

While also still not losing what makes it a really effective experience for your customers.

Charley Burtwistle:

Exactly. And you had a really good point during the podcast.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Oh, thank you.

Charley Burtwistle:

Yeah, just hype you up a little bit. You were a great host today, Zach. Just towing the line between exactly that automation and the personal touch. And I think it’s really just about catering to what your clients, or what your audience wants. There’s going to be people out there that want to read a blog post. There’s going to be people out there that want to watch a video, and there’s going to be people that want to get you on the phone and talk. So, I think as long as you provide those options for people and just cater towards their needs, you’re going to be successful as a business, as a whole.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Keep your options open.

Charley Burtwistle:

There you go.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Just, people should keep their options open and check us out next time on The Building Code.

Charley Burtwistle:

Great. See, I told you you’re on fire today.

Zach Wojtowicz:

I can really just feel it.

Charley Burtwistle:

Thanks guys.

Zach Wojtowicz:

Thank you everybody.

Charley Burtwistle:

See you.