How to win more jobs with better lead management: JNT Developers
David Hopkins, VP Sales and Chief Estimator at JNT Developers – Dallas, Texas – joins us on The Building Code podcast to talk about managing the sales and leads process.
With around 20 employees, JNT Developers classifies as a specialty contractor, but really, this company does it all. From multifamily and commercial construction to residential builds and a whole lot of roofing, it’s safe to say that JNT’s work is diverse. And when it comes to David’s role, he’s handling everything from the incoming lead process to seeing their customers and investment partners all the way through pre-construction.
So, what does the lead process look like for JNT Developers? It all begins with an interview – usually over the phone, but sometimes in the office or on a jobsite if possible. They like to get to know their customers, and they want their customers to get to know them. It’s crucial to make sure everyone’s a fit for each other before a project starts. And when they began doing this a couple years ago, they noticed something great: a major increase in the quality of their customers and the fit between them.
If you looked back at how JNT started with their lead process, things have really changed. According to David, “… we just started as basic as you can.” Their team was entering data into Excel spreadsheets, utilizing Google Docs in its infancy, and writing down too many things on paper. When it came to inspections, those notes were also hand-written. From there, they’d input any secondary data into whatever system they could find that would work. Once Buildertrend came into the picture, David and his team felt instant relief. At first, having a place to store customer information was the biggest help for David. Later on, they opened up to using more features.
Another JNT favorite: the Buildertrend customer portal. From demoing the portal when they meet with a customer to utilizing it on every project, this feature is a big one for JNT Developers. During the initial interview with JNT, customers sometimes mention being burned by bad contractors or going through a bad project; and, JNT has uncovered that these are usually due to lack of communication and a feeling on the customer’s side like they didn’t know what was going on. But, the Buildertrend client portal solves all of that and more for the customer. Small things like weather delays or deliveries not showing up aren’t a big deal when the customer isn’t surprised by them, and Buildertrend easily facilitates this communication.
When it comes to customers finding JNT, what’s their secret? Their biggest lead source is online marketing. The owners of JNT have put money into doing it right and using their historical data to adjust – and it seems to be working. The rest of their leads come from referrals, networking events and, of course, social media.
If David can leave you with anything from this podcast, here are his top three suggestions for how to best manage leads and the sales process:
- Know your sources. Using a tool like Buildertrend to know your lead sources is a great idea. Maybe a couple leads are referrals from a past customer. These are great, but you can’t forget about these customers – you should be taking care of them, as well as your other sources
- It’s all about follow-up. You might have all the leads in the world, but they’ll mean nothing if you can’t follow-up effectively and stay on top of them.
- Qualify your customers. It may feel against the grain, but you need to qualify your customers to fit what you’re looking for as a business. If you can stick to doing what you do best and only taking on those customers, things will run a lot smoother for your company. It’s OK to say “no” sometimes, rather than always saying “yes” to everything.
Links and more
JNT Developers
The Build Show
Buildertrend Leads/CRM
Buildertrend Customer Login
The Building Code: Trunk Bay Companies
Building a Better Sales Follow-up
3 Tips for Managing the Remodeling Pre-Sale Process
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Tom Houghton:
Youโre listening to โThe Building Code.โ Iโm Tom Houghton.
Paul Worth:
Iโm Paul Worth.
Tom Houghton:
Joining us via phone today is David Hopkins from JNT Developers.
David Hopkins:
Hey guys, howโs it going?
Paul Worth:
Doing great.
Tom Houghton:
Great, how are you doing?
David Hopkins:
Very good, very good.
Tom Houghton:
David, you are based out of โฆ
David Hopkins:
We are in Dallas, Texas.
Tom Houghton:
Howโs the weather down there in Dallas?
David Hopkins:
Well, it was rainy this weekend, but itโs finally starting to get nice again. And as we move into summer, itโs going to be finally done with the cold.
Paul Worth:
Weโre happy about that.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah, weโre ready to be done with the cold.
Paul Worth:
Weโre having a bad theme. We talk about weather a lot on this podcast.
Tom Houghton:
Because it affects the business.
Paul Worth:
Because itโs been tough. Youโre right, yeah. Especially your business. What kind of work do you guys do?
David Hopkins:
We are a general contractor, and we service all of Dallas Fort Worth area. And we actually expand into the region as far as certain types of work that we do. But the core of the business is general contracting and roofing. So, on the note on the weather, yeah, when itโs in the rainy season, it makes things very difficult, especially for new construction.
Paul Worth:
So, internally, we segment our clients four different ways, home builders, remodelers, specially contracting, which would be like roofing, siding windows, and then light commercial. Would you say youโre pretty heavily in the third, the specialty contracting?
David Hopkins:
Yeah, with those four things listed, I would say specialty just because we reach so much. At the core itโs multi-family and commercial construction, but also the roofing side of our company is huge. And on top of that, we do some residential new construction as well. So, itโs kind of a large mix. So, I think specialty would be the best way to say it.
Paul Worth:
Yeah, thatโs something that we work on a lot is because nobodyโs really just in one bucket or very rare amount of our clients are in one bucket. Youโre mixing and that diversification is good.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah, we talked about that earlier. You got to diversify
Paul Worth:
Itโs a callback to episode three.
Tom Houghton:
Exactly, good reference.
Paul Worth:
Tell us more about your business. How many employees do you have?
David Hopkins:
Employees, total? I think we just made a couple of new hires. So, I think weโre 15 internally as far as employees go. And then we have a team of independent guys that do the roofing, roofing sales is a little bit different as far as employees go, but all in all, maybe 20 to 25 give or take when the seasonโs at its peak for roofing.
Tom Houghton:
You mainly focus on the sales side, correct? Maybe you can give us some more background on what you do.
David Hopkins:
Yes, for sure. So, in my role, VP of sales, then I also serve as our chief estimator, so everything from the incoming lead process, all the way seeing our clients and any of our investor partners all the way through pre-construction. So, thatโs generally my day-to-day role.
Paul Worth:
And you said chief estimator, thereโs two sides of estimating, right? The system you might use to calculate costs, but also having a database of those costs. Is that fair?
David Hopkins:
Yeah, exactly. For the database side of it, weโve been building that for probably all of my 10 years. So, for five years with JNT, weโve been building that up. And then as far as the actual implementation of those items, as far as putting it into an estimate that you could do a client, thatโs a whole other side, yeah. And I think that that starts with getting the information from the client during the lead process, using something like Buildertrend to get that information correctly and efficiently makes you much more successful when youโre putting bids together to give to a client. So, I think they do go hand in hand, and theyโre both things that have to be managed to be successful.
Paul Worth:
Yeah, we actually just had a feature spotlight on lead management. And we did talk about that through the lens of doing it in Buildertrend, but just going back a little bit before Buildertrend or while you were using that, talk about the process you have. I think I called it a qualification layer because youโll get a ton of leads, and not everybodyโs a good fit for what you do as a business. So, can you talk a little bit about your lead process? Like the steps in it or at least focusing on the qualification level?
David Hopkins:
Yeah, sure. So, just prior to everything coming in, or rather when it first comes into us, the word qualify, I really like because thatโs what we teach on our front end too. And I actually call it a client interview. I donโt know if thatโs the best terminology to use, but we really like to give our clients the opportunity to have an interview both ways. We want to ask them questions, but we want to give them a platform to tell us things that theyโve really enjoyed and also, things that theyโve had negatively impact them with contractors in the past. So, using an interview, thatโs the process we go through.
As far as the initial admin lead coming right in, we just built a Google form that basically lets us put the data quickly into Buildertrend. So, it generates a PDF. We have a bunch of pre-made questions that will give us how to route it correctly in the lead opportunities. But yeah the qualifying is, I would say, the most important thing. And once we started doing that a couple of years ago, weโve seen just a huge increase in the overall quality of the clients that weโre working with, the type of projects, the fit between the two, the fit between the project and us. And I think that makes it all that much better.
Paul Worth:
Yeah, Wes from Trunk Bay on a previous episode talked about that. Itโs very important to their business theyโre doing high-end long projects like custom homes, but even in a shorter project, you really are getting into a relationship with your client, and you want to make sure that itโs a healthy one because there are going to be ups and downs. And so, thatโs good. What does that client interview look like in terms of a vehicle? Is that a phone call or is that a face-to-face meeting? Do you guys have a preference on which one works better for you?
David Hopkins:
Yeah, thatโs a great question. And I think for the most part, I would say maybe 80% of the time itโs a phone call because a lot of our clients are just not in the area. If theyโre investors, theyโre outside of DFW, but we always push. If theyโd like to come into the office or if we could meet them at the site or at their facility, then love that as well. But doing it in that theme of itโs an interview, itโs no pressure, itโs not a sales pitch. Itโs to give them the opportunity to get to know us and take away that element of, โOh, this is just another contractor thatโs trying to sell me something.โ We really want to get to know them.
Paul Worth:
I love that. We talk a lot about elevating the industry, not to put too much on our shoulders, but we do think Buildertrend, thatโs one of our initiatives is to bring it out of the shadows of, โHey, every time I talk to a contractor, I think Iโm going to get screwed over,โ putting a little bit more companies above the board. I think thatโs a good part of it. So, you prefer to do it in person, over the phone, but majority is over the phone. Do you prefer to do it in person because it just adds that element of face to face, getting to know me even better?
David Hopkins:
Yeah, exactly. Nowadays everything is so instantaneous and fast and these little micro transactions between people, text, social media, those things can all be good and used positively, but also if youโre not meeting face-to-face, and youโre not shaking hands, or I just think thereโs something thatโs generally lost nowadays. So, I think getting to meet in person is just a perk.
Paul Worth:
Yeah, thatโs great. I guess where I was going with that for all the listeners and maybe even for you, this is what weโre doing right now because weโve got you on video, a Zoom video chat. Thatโd be a good little middle ground for you guys.
David Hopkins:
Yeah, actually Zoom is new for me. So, we do a lot of design build as well. And our architects have been pushing this. So, weโve done a few of these with our clients, sharing the plans and engineering phases. So, Iโm new to it, but I really like it because youโre right, it is a good bridging point I think.
Paul Worth:
Yeah, right. I donโt like seeing myself on camera, but Hollywood Tom, youโve got no problem with that.
Tom Houghton:
Thatโs me. It comes with the name, I guess.
Paul Worth:
It comes with the territory for you. But that might be a good little tip, actually for our sales team, weโre doing hundreds of demos a day. Iโve thought about, I got to clean them up quite a bit, but Iโve thought about throwing them on video because I think there is something to that element of seeing somebodyโs face. And I think you probably would have closed better as JNT Developers, you actually know you do face-to-face. So, something for the listeners to think about.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah, a good way to bridge that gap. Letโs talk about how your process has evolved. You mentioned youโve been doing this for a couple of years now with putting leads into Buildertrend. What did it look like before?
David Hopkins:
Yeah, thatโs a great question, too. Really looking back on that, we just started as basic as I think you can, as a contractor goes. We were entering data into Excel spreadsheets, into the Google Docs in its infancy. And a lot of things were still just written by hand. Even inspections in person, we would go and meet a client, and you would write all your notes by hand and then youโd have to input all that data secondary into whatever system you could find that would work. And for me, Buildertrend, even when we started using it, just a couple of just basic things, just giving yourself a place to put the clientโs info is a huge help. Not having to rely on three or four different systems plus hand notes, as far as your incoming leads and your incoming inspections, that was really as advanced as it was at the beginning. It was just a lot of pencil writing, a lot of note taking, and a lot of using your memory to try to remember everything.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah, are you guys currently using the customer portal for your jobs?
David Hopkins:
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Tom Houghton:
So, in your sales process, are you guys demoing Buildertrend?
David Hopkins:
Yeah, definitely. We have I guess youโd call it a dummy account. We have a couple of clients that are cool with us showing their projects. We always clear that, obviously, if somebody is coming in, weโll ask them in advance like, โHey, would you mind if we showed so-and-so your project to demo it?โ And most clients are cool with it, but when youโre in commercial construction, some clients donโt want anything about their projects being known. Maybe itโs a premiere, we have an art studio that weโre working on, they donโt want any of that to be known. So, in those instances we have a dummy account that we basically put up the owner site in our conference room, and we just go through it. We show them everything from the Daily Logs to the Schedule to Messages what all the features look like.
Paul Worth:
And does that connect with them?
David Hopkins:
Oh yeah, for sure. I think because going back to the interview, most clients tend to feel like when they mention something negative, itโs been that in their past, it was that they didnโt have communication or they didnโt know what was going on. And as soon as they see that client portal, you can tell by their face like, โOh wow, we never thought we could have something like this.โ And then those fears start to wash away, and you can get down to the root of whatever else they have going on.
Paul Worth:
Absolutely. And have you found that during the job, when there have been changes and a common one like change orders or delay to the schedule, but because the communication is really there the whole time that their reaction to those things is less negative or do they understand more?
David Hopkins:
Absolutely, and we from sales meetings to project management stuff, we teach that if the communicationโs there, and you can deliver it effectively, those negative things like a delay because of weather or you ordered some tile, and it didnโt get there, those things arenโt big issues anymore when the client knows about them. And when they can see that thereโs a clear history of how it happened. Itโs only when those change orders are surprises that they become this huge negative thing. And Buildertrend facilitates that easily. If you train your client, and you show them how to use it, and youโve been showing it to them since the first time you met them, then theyโre comfortable with it from day one. This is construction, so things happen. And when there is an inevitable change order, itโs not a surprise because they know about it the moment that it happens, and they donโt have to be surprised by it.
Paul Worth:
Right, I think thatโs a great takeaway because we talked about this before that I think the thought in construction in the past and these days with some people is, โWell, if thereโs a delay Iโm going to get in trouble or the clientโs going to get mad,โ and then we try to hide things from the client because of that. But Iโve always thought, and Iโm glad you confirmed it, and our clients do is that if you just communicate the whole time, the clients are more mad about being kept in the dark because they feel like youโre trying to pull not only that over them, but God knows what else. And so, communication is super important.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah, I think youโre setting those expectations right off the get go. If you are showing them Buildertrend and showing them how to use it in that sales process, I know we try to really stress to all of our clients, leverage Buildertrend as a marketing tool for your business to help you close those leads. And then also, like you said, it sets that expectation because then they know, โOkay, if something comes up, thereโs a change order, et cetera, Iโll take care of that through Buildertrend.โ
David Hopkins:
Yeah, I agree with all of that. And I think even for us, I admittedly, we didnโt take advantage of it as early as we should have. We knew Buildertrend was a great tool, and I think once we started really positioning ourselves more for those client interviews and making that a bigger focus on the front end, we realized how powerful it was. I still remember the first time showing a client in person the owner site, it changes everything. When you see their reaction to it, even if youโre just showing it to them on your iPad in the field, just pull it up and show it to them, when they see that, itโs just like this warm wash over them. And they just say, โOh, well, okay.โ Itโs such a relief that they donโt even know what to say sometimes. Itโs a wild experience.
Paul Worth:
Thatโs awesome.
Tom Houghton:
Thatโs great.
Paul Worth:
That was a whole ad for Buildertrend. But I think the real takeaway is setting expectations and communication. You could probably do that a few different platforms. I encourage you to use Buildertrend. It helps everybody out here. But I think honestly, again, going back to just the construction industry in general, just a good lesson about expectations and then constant communication because I think weโve talked about this. It does not make sense to the 2019 buyer that there is such a lack of communication and a lack of a platform at all because in every other part of their life, they have those platforms.
David Hopkins:
Yeah, thatโs true. Thereโs so much out there as far as the client to do their stuff, but thereโs so many different ways for them to communicate and all these other ways in their life, like social media, but then this huge project theyโre doing, they donโt feel like thereโs any way for them to connect with our contractor, but thatโs not true.
Paul Worth:
Yeah, exactly. Pulling on that lead question because I want to give people some perspective about lead management. So, how do people find you typically and how many leads, ballpark, me a week are you guys getting in and having to basically layer that qualification on?
David Hopkins:
Sure, and I would say we have a huge amount of leads that do come from our marketing dollars as far as Google searching and things like that, SEO. And thatโs something that the owners of JNT have put money into for years and making it the right way. Putting things very precisely for the type of clients that we want. And that data comes from those interviews that we do, and then looking at how the projects ultimately end up. So, weโve taken basically the historical data of all the projects weโve done, whatโs been working, and then we put that back into the marketing revenue to get the right kind of leads coming from the internet. But we have a huge portion of our leads that come from referrals. I would say probably at this stage, itโs easily 50/50. Half of everything we get comes from referrals or word of mouth. We do a ton of networking events. We do a ton of social media and just the leads alone from Facebook and from Instagram and other things like that in the last maybe year has just gone up dramatically.
Tom Houghton:
Can I ask about those events? Iโve been hearing a lot of our clients actually doing this as educational events. Is that what you guys are posing these as?
David Hopkins:
Sometimes they are, yeah. Thereโs definitely the opportunity for us to be on an instructor level to our clients as far as a lot of the events weโve been going to recently have been in the multifamily game because thatโs something weโve been really passionate about recently, but weโve had the opportunity at those events to get up and basically instruct and say, โHey, this is how you inspect these properties the right way. This is how you do your due diligence. This is how you look for a contractor.โ So, what weโve been trying to do is just put ourselves out there saying, โHey, this is how you act as a contractor in these spaces. And this is what you look for as the client to find the best contractor.โ And basically eliminating that Bato of, โHey, everybody thatโs a contractor wants to keep everything to themselves. Donโt share anything. Donโt work with each other in any way. Donโt give away any secrets.โ The way to be successful nowadays is to be open as a contractor, we have to share with our clients our process.
Paul Worth:
Totally agree. Matt Reisenger at International Buildersโ Show, he did a whole talk about this, where in Austin, Texas, where heโs from, nobody was charging for bids. Clients would come to him, expect to do hours of work, they would then hand that estimate over and they wouldnโt get the job or they would. So, he, instead of just doing that on his own to start charging, he got them all together and said, โHey, we need to start doing this as a group.โ And so, I think that the construction industry would serve from taking that step of not trying to keep everything to themselves, but then just trying to share best practices.
David Hopkins:
Yeah, I believe thatโs true. I guess weโre all for a good competition, right? If weโre in a group of good contractors that are treating clients the right way, thereโs more than enough for everybody to go around and us creating a network or an alliance of contractors that are doing things the correct way. And as far as correct, I mean, just treating people with respect, being honest, being open, thereโs only good to come from that. And for all of us, not just for one or two of us that are doing it. We can change the industry to get rid of all these negative preconceptions about contractors taking advantage of people. Or like I said, the negativity that comes on the front end when you first meet a client, those things can be washed away if weโre all doing the same thing.
Paul Worth:
Yeah, we have hundreds, literally, hundreds of builders in the Dallas area. Maybe we should just be that common thread.
Tom Houghton:
We should get a group together.
Paul Worth:
Get everybody to Cheddarโs or something, Applebeeโs, knock out a meeting room and about a keg of Coors Light. And letโs talk every month. All right, weโre going to get back on track because I had a follow-up question because I thought what you said was great about the owners of your business, how they think about their business. So, you were saying that you look at not only the sources, youโre getting the paid sources, obviously, your close percentage there, but then you look on how the job performed in terms of I only assume was it a smooth job, but and/or more importantly, did you make money on that job? Is that how you look at that to then loop back in and decide where youโre going to spend your marketing dollars?
David Hopkins:
Yeah, exactly. I think we like to look at overall client satisfaction obviously is number one. And then looking at things like you go through Buildertrend, you have your scheduling data, you can see where are we on schedule? Were there delays, but what were they for? And then looking at how many change orders? How many โฆ And maybe change orders ties into was this project a project that had plans and engineering, or was this a project that didnโt have plans and engineering? And then you can weigh up like, โOkay, so on average, if weโre doing commercial tenant build-outs and they have plans and engineering, we tend to be more likely on time and the client tends to be happier.โ
And I think thatโs where you take that data and then you plug it into what are you really doing best and find your identity as a contractor. When we looked at our data, we saw that the way we had built JNT, the way we build our project management system and our sales system, it heavily was leaning towards investors and we realized, โOkay, letโs position ourselves for that type of client in the commercial realm and in the multifamily realm, it seems to fit beautifully.โ
Paul Worth:
Yeah, we talked about this last time. Thereโs a certain point in your business that you stop making decisions off gut, which again is not bad if thatโs all you have, because you know yourself and your industry, but at a certain point, you start making decisions off data, and you have to have a system to house all that data. You canโt make those decisions unless you have that historical information there, which is really important.
Tom Houghton:
Maybe we could wrap up with this. If you could give other contractors maybe three suggestions for how to best manage your leads and/or the sales process, what would that look like?
David Hopkins:
Yeah, I really like that question. I think the number one thing is you have to know your sources and if you donโt know where leads are coming from, or you think that maybe you can just remember, it just doesnโt work. Something like Buildertrend, being able to track that is number one. So, as far as the first thing, I would say you have to know where your sources are, and you have to take care of your sources. If you donโt know, if youโve got a couple of your clients that are just throwing you leads left and right, you need to take care of that client. You need to make sure youโre calling and saying thank you and making it right. As far as that, you need to be able to track your follow-ups. So, your second thing is all the leads in the world mean nothing if you canโt follow up effectively, and you canโt stay on top of it.
Turning in your estimates on time is one thing, but the communication and follow-ups is the thing thatโs going to close deals, especially big ones. Commercial, multi-family stuff, youโre going to wait a lot longer. And if you donโt have a system to follow up, youโre going to lose those deals. And then last, I think, and you said at the very beginning, ironically, but qualifying your customer. If youโre not qualifying them, so you take your sources, youโre doing good follow-ups, all that stuff is great. But if youโre not qualifying yourself to fit with who you do at the best for, making sure you found your identity, then youโre never going to reach your full potential as a contractor, especially in a market like Dallas. Thereโs just so much going on. Itโs easy to take every single thing that comes at you and say, โIโm going to do this one and Iโm going to do that one.โ But if you can hone your skill, figure out what you do best, know your sources, do your follow-ups well, youโre going to blow everybody else away, and youโre going to do it the right way.
Paul Worth:
The third point of qualification, itโs a good book end to this episode is that the real reason you do that is not only to make more money and have the right job, but you could spend 70% of your time chasing your tail with people that will never A, sign a deal with you because they werenโt serious, B, spend the right amount of money where you guys actually make a profit, or C โฆ
Tom Houghton:
Or C, you donโt want to have a difficult client to work with, somebody who meshes well with your personality and how you work.
David Hopkins:
Yeah, I think a lot of times itโs easy to get stuck in a cycle of thinking that you have to serve everyone the same and you should serve your clients the same with respect with gratitude. But you are a business, so you should be serving those that are serving you and being able to deliver great for a certain type of client. If you can identify that, well then go all in, triple down and go for that. If your thing is commercial, go for that. If youโre better at residential homeowner projects because youโve built your project systems that way, then go all in there. But triple down and go for it, and know it because you have that data to back it up.
Paul Worth:
Last thing, just because I just love this stuff. And weโve talked about this over and over with people, this idea of referral marketing. Do you speak to that before, during or after the construction project with your clients? Do you actually ask for referrals?
David Hopkins:
Oh, yeah, from the first moment that weโre talking to people, and we were starting to gauge interest, weโre letting them know most of the time that our business is coming from that. Like I said, at least 50% of everything we have coming in is from referrals, and we donโt shy away from it. Let people know, โHey, that is how we are successful, but if youโre happy, if you have someone that you know,โ especially in a business setting, and not only connecting you with like say mom, dad, brother, sister, but connecting you with other business relations. If youโre working with a commercial client, find out if they can get you connected with the property manager, see if they can get you with the commercial real estate agent, maybe the broker. Thereโs so many ways to get yourself positioned better as a contractor in those scenarios. And just simply asking for referral, just like, โHey, send me to your buddies,โ no, โSend me to your business relationships. Put me in front of people that can make decisions so that I can serve them just like I served you.โ
Paul Worth:
Thatโs a good point. So, not only do you ask for referrals, but you really speak to who specifically you would like them to refer you to. Thatโs a great tip.
Tom Houghton:
Thatโs even more qualification. Youโre doing the qualification process right there.
Paul Worth:
Weโre just qualifying on top of qualifying.
Tom Houghton:
Yeah, thatโs qualificationception.
Paul Worth:
Thatโs quality qualification.
Tom Houghton:
Thatโs good.
Paul Worth:
Thank you.
Tom Houghton:
Thatโs good. All right, David, thank you so much for your time and joining us on the podcast. We had a great time talking to you about leads. Of course, if you have any more questions about anything weโve discussed here, please check out our show notes on the show notes page at buildertrend.com/podcast.
Paul Worth:
Yeah, JNT. Are you guys on social media?
David Hopkins:
Yes, definitely. JNT Developers on Facebook, Georgia Brew is our CEO, Iโm David Hopkins. Weโre both pretty active on there, so you can find either of us and thanks both Paul and Tom for having me on today, man. I really appreciate it.
Paul Worth:
This was great.
Tom Houghton:
This was fantastic.
Paul Worth:
All right, David. Thanks, appreciate you.
David Hopkins:
Thank you, guys.
Tom Houghton:
Make sure you check out our shownotes page. Also, donโt forget to subscribe and rate our podcast. Thanks so much for listening, and weโll see you next time on โThe Building Code.โ
Paul Worth:
Appreciate you.
David Hopkins | JNT Developers
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