Design + teamwork = Success with High Street Homes

Tom Houghton:

You’re listening to “The Building Code,” your guide for a better way to run your business. I’m Tom Houghton.

Paul Wurth:

Hey everybody, I’m Paul Wurth in the studio.

Tom Houghton:

In the studio, we’re back again.

Paul Wurth:

We’re back at it.

Tom Houghton:

Exactly.

Paul Wurth:

Feels great.

Tom Houghton:

Yeah, we’ve got some great podcasts lined up for you here, in the month of June.

Paul Wurth:

Summer time.

Tom Houghton:

Summer time.

Paul Wurth:

Boy, we’re feeling it here, 90 today.

Tom Houghton:

Yeah, and also in the studio the air conditioning is not on today.

Paul Wurth:

It’s a little warm. It’s okay.

Tom Houghton:

But we’ll get there. Speaking of warm, our guests…

Paul Wurth:

Great transition.

Tom Houghton:

Are from a warm climate in Fort Worth, Texas, joining us today, Brett and Kara Phillips from High Street Homes. How’s it going?

Kara Phillips:

Good. Thank you for having us.

Brett Phillips:

We’re happy to be here. And we are feeling summer as well, down here, so we’re hot.

Paul Wurth:

That’s perfect.

Tom Houghton:

I was going to be really bummed if you were like, “Actually Tom, it’s-“

Paul Wurth:

Frigid.

Tom Houghton:

“We had a cold front move in.”

Paul Wurth:

We’re both in the central part of the country, so we should be good. High Street Homes. Let’s jump in. How did you get that name? That’s a question I like to ask people a lot.

Tom Houghton:

It’s true.

Brett Phillips:

High Street Homes came from… We liked the idea of the main part of a town being the center, which is like main street. And so high street is really the main part of, another name for main street, that’s not main street.

Paul Wurth:

It’s high street. Tom, you lived in the UK?

Tom Houghton:

I did.

Paul Wurth:

Our listeners should know this. How long?

Tom Houghton:

Five years total.

Paul Wurth:

In London or outside?

Tom Houghton:

Outside of London, yep. And lived off of a high street in Gerrards Cross.

Paul Wurth:

So high street’s main street?

Tom Houghton:

Well yeah, kind of like the main drag it’s got your grocery stores there, you’ve got your pubs, you’ve got your newsstand, it’s all right there. It’s really the heart of a small town.

Paul Wurth:

And what else do they say? You’re not downtown, but…

Tom Houghton:

The city?

Paul Wurth:

No, it’s like-

Tom Houghton:

City central?

Paul Wurth:

City central. Those are two terms you hear over there. High street and city central, good. That makes sense to us. Are you guys from Texas or did you spend time in the UK?

Kara Phillips:

I’m a born and raised Texan.

Paul Wurth:

Nice.

Brett Phillips:

And I’m a born again Texan. I’m from Southern California and grew up just outside of Santa Barbara. Two of my best friends from college married girls from Texas, so there’s three California boys that were best friends, that married three Texas girls that were best friends. So it’s really odd and really good.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah, that works.

Tom Houghton:

It sounds like the next best country song there, right? Three guys from California, three girls from Texas.

Paul Wurth:

Well I like born again Texan, that’s got some legs.

Tom Houghton:

I’m sure that’s already a song.

Paul Wurth:

You think so?

Tom Houghton:

We’ll check the show notes.

Paul Wurth:

Check the show notes.

Tom Houghton:

Check the show notes for the song.

Paul Wurth:

We’re going to do a little producing and see if we have that. So tell us a little bit about what type of construction and how’s your company built. And what we mean by that, is what types of projects do you do, employee size? That kind of thing.

Kara Phillips:

So we really are a design and build firm, but I think the interesting thing about us is we started really in construction, with a design hat, if you will. We built our first home, but we actually hired out the construction on it. And so we realized at that time, during that process, it was in 2011, and we were… Pinterest was new to the scene and there was so much accessibility and saturation of design. Other than just going and looking at a magazine, we would get on Pinterest and just look at the most amazing images, and they were just flooding everywhere. And we found there was a gap in our market between construction and really great design. And so during that process, we acted as our own designers on the job, and we realized, if we actually went into business as a construction company, but we were really design forward, I think we could bring the fusion together at a better price point. So that was the liftoff to our company.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah, that makes sense. So there are two types of construction companies and the majority is, somebody who grew up in the trades. So their dad or mom owned a construction business, or they were a framer and they’re like, “Hey, I want to do this myself.” So did you guys have any of that experience or you’re coming from a totally different place, where it’s design and then you’re going to learn or hire out the construction expertise.

Brett Phillips:

Kara moved 17 times in the same town.

Kara Phillips:

Before I had graduated high school, I had moved to 17 different homes.

Brett Phillips:

So her family was in real estate, so they would build a house and then sell it and then move to the next one, and so it was this ongoing real estate development as there’s more space in Texas. So there are some things in her blood, I think as far as that. And she studied finance real estate as well for undergrad, but I think ultimately she wishes she would’ve studied interior design, which I think through our construction experience, felt more like an apprenticeship as you learn on the ground and doing it yourself. I have a master’s in organizational leadership, and so for me, it was more about the managing and coordinating people and building strategic relationships and understanding the human piece of construction. We always tell our clients, it’s a human process, so a lot of things can go wrong and they do. And so when we’re in that together, how do you help manage everybody’s expectations, but continue to solve problems and get there as quickly and correctly as possible.

Tom Houghton:

Awesome. So I know you said you got a master’s. I think you might’ve got the master’s at a university that’s very near and dear to my heart.

Paul Wurth:

Oh, really?

Tom Houghton:

Think we’ve got a little bit of a connection there from Azusa Pacific University.

Brett Phillips:

That’s right. Small world. Very small world.

Tom Houghton:

Right.

Paul Wurth:

Wait, is that the third person… didn’t we have another guest on?

Tom Houghton:

It’s connections.

Paul Wurth:

And there’s five people in that university, right?

Tom Houghton:

Only five. And you’ve met three.

Paul Wurth:

Very high end. Very nice.

Tom Houghton:

Two more to go, we’ll find them.

Paul Wurth:

Taking a small class size to a whole new level.

Tom Houghton:

That’s exactly right. I know you just talked about lessons learned too, and I would love to dive into that a little bit. You built your first home, I think, back in 2011. What were some of the lessons that you guys learned from that experience, diving in?

Kara Phillips:

Well, I think because we weren’t actually doing the construction arm at that time, we learned that, essentially, design and construction can go hand in hand in a really neat way. And so a lot of times, from a design standpoint, it’s only going to go as well as it can, dependent upon the contractor on the job to execute. So it’s really a teamwork idea, and so ultimately, the reason why we had a whole umbrella of both design and construction, is because we really just felt the two needed each other. So in order to get the final product to be what we wanted it to be. And we felt like that was a big lesson, is to understand how to bring those two together.

Brett Phillips:

I think a few other things that we’ve learned for sure, one thing that’s emerged more partway through, is really valuing yourself and asking for appropriate pricing for what you offer and what that looks like really early on.

Brett Phillips:

I think when you’re new, you don’t think you deserve or are worth the value of what you are, and so one book that’s been really helpful to us is “Profit First.” And that’s been a really great resource for us in actually paying yourself first and then bringing other avenues for different things to say, “Oh, my account isn’t that full because all this money actually needs to go to all these other things, so don’t spend money on this marketing initiative or tap into that.” So that’s one thing from a finance perspective of getting paid and earning what your value is, has been really key.

Paul Wurth:

That’s great. Is that a construction specific book or is that generally-

Kara Phillips:

They have made it specific to constructions, so there’s one that’s “Profit First for Contractors”-

Brett Phillips:

Shawn Van Dyke is the author. But then I think there was a takeoff of another, more general “Profit First.”

Kara Phillips:

Mike Michalowicz.

Brett Phillips:

Mike… He has a really nice last name that I can’t pronounce.

Tom Houghton:

That’s okay. It happens to me all the time, actually.

Kara Phillips:

It was a really pivotal book for us to read because it did require us to really value ourselves and then understand what we have left to actually operate our business.

Paul Wurth:

That’s great. We’ll throw links in the show notes for that. There’s two questions I have, one for Kara, this might be hard, but for somebody who’s just not super into understanding construction, can you give me a tangible example of where the design meets the construction and the problems happen? I mean, maybe the design calls for a built-in, in this kitchen area, but the duck works there. Is that kind of what you’re talking about?

Kara Phillips:

I guess at one point in our business, I believe it was in 2016, we had had a really hard road, and we pulled back and we looked at what’s happening, what we needed to value ourselves more, and we had realized that we had differentiated ourselves as contractors with a designer lens. So we needed to separate those two. And what we’ve found is that we spend so much more time in the beginning on the actual design of the project. First and foremost, it starts with the floor plan, which is both a product of design and a product of construction.

Kara Phillips:

So we both sit down and where I may say, “Oh my gosh, I’ve got to look down and I need to see a window through this corridor.” Brett will say, “Hey…” And we’re not actually separated by contractor, designer, but one of us will say, “Oh, I really want to see this window down at the end of a corridor.” And then the other one will say, “Hey, no, we need duct work, we need to bring up the wall right there. We need to use that space for construction.” “Okay, fantastic.” That is our boundary, and now we’re going to make that spot beautiful, knowing that we have to use that space for construction related items.

Paul Wurth:

I’m going to follow up on there, so where in your process, and also in Nashville construction, where does the interior design come in? Are you talking to the clients about that during this design process, or do we go, “Hey, here are the bones, and we’re going to talk about paint colors and wall coverings, and different things that we might suggest interior design style of colors, later.” Or is that always there?

Kara Phillips:

Creating a process and part of what we do, and what’s so great about Buildertrend, is that having a larger schedule… Because so many of those decisions can only flow from the next one, and so we’ve got to say, “Hey, we’re going to take care of the bones right now, we’re going to make sure those are great. We’re going to talk about paint colors, that’s going to be really important, or we’re going to talk about cabinet layout.” But that won’t come until we’ve addressed window placement and the openings and transitions, and so we have just a very large, comprehensive schedule.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah. And that leads me to something Brett said earlier which is, some of the most successful construction companies we’ve talked to, and we’ve talked to thousands, they do come from a business or systems-oriented way to approach the actual construction business. We need somewhere to have these communications, and they need to be tracked, and we need somewhere to schedule this, and we need to go somewhere to schedule appointments. And so Brett, was that where you came in and saw an opportunity within construction because so many companies don’t have systems?

Brett Phillips:

I think part of that, I just really enjoy people. And so I think for us, we like to create, and we like to see spaces celebrate people’s every day. And so for us that ultimately is what drives us and excites us about it. And I think there’s ways that I’m still building certain processes and schedules and systems. I think as an extrovert, one of my greatest assets is building relationships with vendors and understanding what’s new, or what’s different, or how do we problem solve this.

Brett Phillips:

As any builder, we’re just a team of two, we did have a full-time superintendent, that transitioned last year, just as our work and different things change. We’re a small team, so we’re hit with so many fires and problems to solve all the time for us to be able to sell this quickly. So I think for systems, those go into play to help. Okay, I have a checklist manifesto. Have you guys read that book and know that book as well? Anyway, I think there’s more of a sequence and working through, okay, here’s this challenge and how do we work through the steps to get through it?

Paul Wurth:

Yeah. That makes sense.

Tom Houghton:

So you talked about your roles a little bit, that they aren’t necessarily, designer and then actually production of the job. Can you talk about that? Obviously you’re husband and wife, I feel like that might come up as, “Hey, this is my territory.” Is there any fighting? Is there a benefit? I think from an outsider perspective, I think it’s great because you have two people then that are watching each other’s back because there’s no, “Oh, this is your area.” So then also maybe that removes the finger pointing of, “Well, you missed that.” I don’t know, share your experience on that.

Kara Phillips:

Plenty of finger pointing. It’s only natural at times, there’s so much information to communicate and so many people to communicate with. But we work really hard at overseeing separate parts of the business, and we found that if one of us could take responsibility for one area and then the other person can back that area up or double-check, then that’s how it’s great. But we both design together and we both do a lot of the constructions related.

Brett Phillips:

It’s a bit blurry, which I think we’re still working through a little bit. Working as a husband and wife, there’s for sure pros, I think we’re really grateful that our mornings start very differently working from home. I think that flexibility and that opportunity to call the shots, we remind ourselves a lot, “Oh no, we’re in charge. If you want that to look different, we can change that.” We do overlap some, but we do have our main avenues. Kara’s the main lead designer, I’m mostly construction and operations and managing that.

Brett Phillips:

And then Kara does some of our finance as well, and then all kinds of supplements. Sometimes when you stay in something too long, you just need a break, and you’re like, my eyes are going across and I need to change that. Being a husband and wife, there’s always lots of good communication check-ins where you’re like… I think one thing we’ve learned, there’s funny times when you have a better relationship with a trade and you’re trying to advocate for them, but then they’ve done something that’s frustrating that creates more problems. And then we realized, sometimes it creates problems between us and we’re like, “Oh no, we’re the team. We don’t need to advocate for…” Made a choice around something weird or whatever it’s-

Kara Phillips:

We have to remember that we also, at the end of the day, have to come to a unified force and back each other up.

Paul Wurth:

It’s like parenting.

Kara Phillips:

It is, it is like parenting.

Paul Wurth:

You’ve got to have a unified voice against your kids. Have to.

Tom Houghton:

Unified front.

Paul Wurth:

Well, that’s great. That does lead me to a question I had since you started, it has to be a challenge for somebody who doesn’t grow up in construction, especially in your local area. Was there some anxiety to saying, “Look, I don’t know any of the subs or trades around here and I’ve got to go make those relationships and find out which sub is quality and which vendor is somebody who’s going to be good to work with.” I’m sure that took a lot of time. Do you want to talk a little bit about how you started that process?

Brett Phillips:

Yeah, we had a list of contacts that we had to start with and I think it’s always one of those things where there’s certain relationships. I feel like there’s a lot of trade contractors sometimes that everyone has a heart attack at some point, and someone’s mom is always in the hospital and there’s all those funny things about people in the trade where I’m like, “You told me that two weeks ago, your mom had a heart attack and now she has a heart attack again.” Poor mom. But for us, it was one of those things where we…

Brett Phillips:

I think as an extrovert, I’m good at building relationship, and so it’s one of those things that you constantly had to figure out, are these the best people to serve our clients, and are these the best people to help meet the needs of what we’re doing? And some people naturally weed themselves out. Some vendors, you build relationships with, and it’s really good for a certain amount of time, but a sales rep transitions or a product changes. And so I think it’s this constantly evolving thing anyway, but I think building those good relationships first is really key. And then you just have to keep building and working on it.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah, and I think, we talked about this with Stacy Eakman in our latest podcast, he went around physically to architects to create these relationships, just pop in and say, “Hey, here’s who I am, here’s what I do.” Is that sort of how you went about it or how you continue to go about it? Or can you give me or the listeners, some tactical ways to continue opening doors to new subs and vendors and trade contractors?

Brett Phillips:

One thing that I would really recommend, is build colleagues in the industry. So I think there’s a lot of work and there’s a lot of space for a lot of people. For sure, there’s this natural competition and this need to be excellent in your space, but the earlier you can build relationships, those are the best people to say, “Hey, I’m in a pinch and I need a plumber to come do this today.” Or, “Hey, this came up on this thing, do you have a relationship with…”

Brett Phillips:

Or even asking your trades, so I think building other general contractors, architects, designers, that you respect and trust that they have good traits. The majority of them want to share, sometimes it’s hard because they might employ all those trades or they can’t necessarily do that, but also, “Okay, do you know a good painter or trim carpenter because they come in right after you and they either make your work with really great or not great, so let’s talk through that as well.” Your trades want to advocate for you and bring their other colleagues up, they like and respect because they almost feel proud of what they do.

Paul Wurth:

That’s a great tip. Let’s make your work look good, so tell me the best guy after this.

Tom Houghton:

That’s a good plan. Let’s talk about design more since that’s obviously one of the cornerstones, I would say, of your company. In the process of building out the project, would you say that design ever influences the build or vice versa? What’s that look like for you guys?

Kara Phillips:

Absolutely. I think we always start a project with a level of understanding of the design. And I think it makes our project… We have a much more holistic approach if we do it that way. It makes the client a lot happier, and when it comes to our speculative projects, which we call our market homes, I think it’s really important that we have an overall design for the entire project.

Paul Wurth:

Yeah, this has been really… You guys have such a unique perspective, I think it’s awesome. So definitely go follow you on all your platforms and that’s my last question. Honestly, social media for a business is becoming more and more important and almost essential. We talked to so many contractors in this podcast that they get almost half or a hundred percent of their leads from their social media presence. Can you give anybody just a quick tip on how you guys built yours or what your philosophy is?

Brett Phillips:

Awesome. We have two, our personal design one is at Brett and Kara. We have two Ts and K-A-R-A. The preppiest names so it’ll just come up. And then at High Street Homes is our business. We aren’t as active on High Street Homes, that’s something that we’re working on as we have more speculative homes and other market homes and trying to make sure we grow that locally. At Brett and Kara is actually, our audience is really national, which is interesting, and so for us in growing our demographics it’s really important, I think, to know who your audience is and what your purpose of building that. But consistency is really key and having an authentic voice. I think it’s really, for us being in design, people love to see beautiful things and beautiful spaces, and I think at times in construction, depending on who your audience is, are you wanting to attract clients or you wanting to attract other builder colleagues and friends? So are you highlighting tools? Are you highlighting framing that isn’t necessarily always beautiful and something that someone’s going to like or love?

Brett Phillips:

But if you’re sharing good tips and information in it, you get to be more respected or trusted, so I think figuring out what are those things, who’s your audience that you’re trying to attract? And then you have to be really consistent in that. Either that’s through the copy or whether that’s through the images, it can be a bit overwhelming for sure, but one thing that’s really helped us, is building relationships with a lot of people in Instagram. We have made a lot of friends from Artisan Signature Homes, to AFT Construction, to Risinger Build, to other people that are in construction, but also in design. Those people share you and they talk about you and they highlight. So I think there’s this collaborative space in that too, that has really helped us. I don’t know why people are there, but I think you…

Kara Phillips:

It’s a social platform, so these social is what we always remember.

Tom Houghton:

That’s a great point, and Brad and Matt, they’re all… Shout out to all you guys, you’re putting out some amazing content and again, go follow them on Instagram. If you missed it, check out the show notes, Buildertrend.com/podcast. We’ll put links to their Instagram accounts, you can go give them a follow. Obviously, that just helps the entire industry out, and obviously you can see all of the amazing design work that they’re doing. Speaking of design, because again, I really wanted to drive that home. You guys live in Texas, and I feel like when you mentioned design in Texas, I think of Chip and Joanne and Chip and Jo Jo, we’re on that kind of name basis apparently. So I’m thinking subway tiles, I’m thinking farmhouse sinks. Is this what you’re still seeing in your area in terms of design trends? What’s the next wave of this?

Kara Phillips:

Specifically where we are, we’re seeing people gradually leave a little bit of the farmhouse style and people are really embracing the taupe, tonal kitchens. Still, a lot of painted cabinets are happening and wood floors, but everyone still loves a good painted brick home.

Brett Phillips:

I think there’s an element of organic wellness going through everything. Some people are concerned about what’s in the water or what’s in the air that they’re breathing, but for people it’s about relaxation. And I think a little bit of a minimal vibe in a way, but also lots of amenities, but things tucked away. So I think…

Kara Phillips:

It’s still light and bright, for sure.

Tom Houghton:

That’s awesome. I know that our listeners, of course, love to stay up to date on trends, so I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with your area. And I know we talked about relationships earlier and knew we can end on this really quick. What would you say to our listeners, so fellow builders or interior designers that are trying to work across the aisle and want to work better together. Obviously, you guys have it built-in, but for those people who don’t have an interior designer in house and they’re working with somebody exterior or vice versa, what are some tips that you can provide?

Brett Phillips:

I would start with, what are your expectations and how do you work best? I think understanding for an interior designer, A are limited in what their ability is, to navigate it, so how do you both advocate for your client and be in a position where no one’s pointing fingers or blaming someone else, or using the person as a scapegoat because it’s easy to, “Oh, well this person missed this or this is this or…” Finger point.

Kara Phillips:

I think teamwork is the key to making that happen, I think a designer is only ever really as good as the implementation of it and the construction, and I think similarly, a contractor can really benefit from a designer coming in and really helping spearhead the design and making a beautiful product.

Brett Phillips:

But I think clarity is key, so whatever you can put down pen and paper or in images or visual, I think that helps clarify everything, and that’s where a lot of stuff… I told someone to lower something the other day, and that meant two different things and so sometimes you have to be very specific on what that means to shorten.

Tom Houghton:

Sure. That’s a good point.

Paul Wurth:

This was great. Thank you guys. Very interesting perspective. And we can definitely follow on Instagram for sure.

Tom Houghton:

Absolutely, yeah. I really appreciate you coming on the podcast today and just sharing your knowledge. Of course, we’re really happy that you guys are a part of our Buildertrend family. Now you use us, we think that’s great. We love builders like yourself who are out there trying to make the entire industry better. Kudos on that, keep up the great work and we’ll hopefully have you back on at some point or visit you in person. That’d be great.

Paul Wurth:

There you go, yeah.

Tom Houghton:

Once all this stuff passes.

Paul Wurth:

Once traveling’s back.

Tom Houghton:

Yeah. Awesome.

Kara Phillips:

Thank you for having us.

Tom Houghton:

Love what you heard? Don’t forget to rate and subscribe to our podcast so you can hear from more guests that will benefit your business. Also, please check out our show notes page for more information on what we discussed on this episode. You can find it at Buildertrend.com/podcast. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next time on “The Building Code.”